The corporate reforms are the centerpiece. On the individual side, raising the standard deduction means that most people will not itemize, thus making their taxes easier.

The AMT and estate tax systems are needlessly complex. Can you say generation skipping taxes? How about preferences? Or uniform something or other?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Take away the estate tax and the AMT and this country will be flooded with thousands more Bushes, Trumps and Kushners.

Who in their right mind wants that?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It's also a joke that we are the only country that charges taxes for expats. When I lived in Israel I had to file US taxes, even in a calendar year where 100% of my income came from Israel and I spent exactly 0 days on US soil.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I would imagine most ex-pats in Israel feel this way.

The AMT does not hit the wealthy people you outlined. If you understand the construct (28% flat tax), it hits the upper middle class because taxpayers pay the higher of the AMT or regular tax. When your marginal rate is 39.6%, the 28% rate never comes into play. It hits people in the $150-$500k space because it takes away deductions like state income taxes paid and exposes them to one standard deduction that diminishes as the income goes up. It is particularly hard on folks living in high tax states, CA and NY especially.

My problem with the estate tax is that it is just a kick in the a$$ where the government takes money that has already been taxed multiple times. It causes liquidity problems for the next generation when their wealth is tied up in private companies. They have to sell to pay the tax. But yes, it benefits the very wealthy. I'd rather the government just take its pound of flesh when the money is earned. The added complexity causes tons of misdirected activity to minimize the tax.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The global tax system is typical of American exceptionalist thinking. "You are an American citizen and owe Caesar no matter where you are." They are doing the same thing to the financial institutions that deal with ex-pats.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I'd say most US expats throughout the world feel this way no matter where they live.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

We have friends where the husband and his wife live here but have a home back in his native Switzerland. Their local bank dumped them because they didn't want to deal with the legal exposure to having American account holders (FACTA).

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I'm with Denis on most of this, but we differ on the estate tax. I think it's the biggest driver of inequality. I'm all for exempting a fair amount (currently $5 mil) but passing tens or hundreds of millions down to your kids who haven't earned it is just morally wrong in my opinion. The problem I do have with it though, is big: I think it would create a perverted incentive to kill people to get to their assets.

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What a tragedy. Thoughts and prayers to him and his family.

I certainly understand that opinion. The problem is all the misdirected economic activity (accountants and lawyers) through estate planning to minimize the tax. The money passed down has already been taxed. And in RR's example, the Bush kids are still going to be very rich, so it's not like it puts those families back to square one. It's just not an effective way to raise tax revenue. It's like this feel good tax that makes everyone think we are getting rid of generational wealth.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The real tragedy is that you started the thread, and I am still waiting to see one constructive comment from you. But thanks for posting the article.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This is like debating the lineup of the 2021 White Sox. You know it will suck, we just have no idea how exactly.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

The estate tax is an interesting moral dilemma. Should the very act of dying remove your claim to the direction of the money you would have owned had you simply lived? Here is an example:
1) 30 year old has a child, and dies 6 months later.
2) 30 year old has a child, and dies 60 years later.

Why isn't the child in #1 not entitled to the 18 years of financial support that the child in #2 got simply because a parent died?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Taxable "events" are always tricky. The capital gains deferral is the largest example. That is why Buffet pays no material level of income tax. He has $50B in wealth that goes untaxed because he never sells a share of stock nor does his company pay any dividends. Think about that....he is worth $50B and hasn't paid a dime on that wealth. And he complains how he isn't taxed enough.

So let's propose a capital gains tax that is paid annually on realized and unrealized capital gains. Then let's see his tax rate and tax payments. I wonder if he would support that.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Exemption for people who die who still have children?

Fixed.

This board is full of disenfranchised soon to be billionaires that just need to be taxed less. I still remember a guy I worked with when Bush gave a tax refund, and the guy cheered about it for weeks. He got $700 and bought a mattress.

Good times are here again for the working man!

Well, then there is no estate tax, mainly....most people who die have children.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This mult is on the improve!

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Freedom is our Strength.

The mults have serious game around here.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

this is a great idea.

Y'know, we grew up poor. Until I was in my 20's, my dad and mom didn't make above min wage. I don't hate rich people though...I just want to learn what they're doing to be rich so I can do the same. I never looked down my nose or hated rich kids who got their wealth from their parents...a lot of the time they were miserable. You don't work hard, eventually you go crazy. I've got two jobs to pay the bills...the world needs my line of work, ditch digging type work. I just want to pay the least amount of taxes feasibly possible. And with this legislation, I will pay less taxes.

Why would moving to Kansas help me with the federal tax system?

Why does this particular plan hasten the demise of SS and Medicare directly? I don't get that criticism.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I meant, children literally. Like under 18.

But then you'd have 95 year olds adopting kids to avoid the tax.


Creating royalty is bad though and that's the road you go down when wealth keeps going down generationally

In reality, that's pretty much what we have now, but I'm more talking in the abstract. If a man who lives to 90 gets to control the money he has for 90 years why does a man who lives to 30 not get to do the same?

That is why I agree with denis that it is more fair to simply tax wealth accumulation better rather than the arbitrary idea that your family deserves the money less because you died.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I could go for that...some asset classes, such as commodity futures and options, are already currently taxed on both the realized and unrealized p&l (marked from one year to the next). Let's do it for stocks too.

Also, at some point they need to start indexing capital gains for inflation. If I buy a stock for $10 and in 20 years sell it for $15, why should I have to pay taxes on the "gain," when there really was none in real terms?

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Jaw, indexing would just add tons of complexity. Taxation of unrealized capital gains is also problematic from a liquidity stand point. The only taxes that appear easy to collect and enforce are sales taxes, but we have a huge issue with the regressive nature of those taxes.

As soon as you start to tax income, we have a complexity problem because determining income timing recognition and allowable expenses (deductions) is very difficult. Then you start applying different rates to different types of income, and suddenly it is a mess. Plus income is easy to hide in cash businesses and for the self employed. So you need a massive enforcement mechanism that doesn't work all that well.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Sorry, I didn't pick up on your original point. You really meant (in IRS parlance) dependents or something thereon. Your children always remain your children in the Estate tax context. And that concept does appear because of generation skipping taxes.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Though, I will say this so it doesn't come off as anything else, the current estate tax is at a level where it still gives those kids quite a good start on their lives.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yup.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Good start? rich people die in their 80s. so their kids are in their 50s, no?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Kirkwood starts a thread thinking "Lol drumpf plan so dumb"

CFMB: "Eh its not terrible"

Kirkwood: A bunch of "whataboutism" responses.

Congrats on getting blown the fuck out on your own thread.

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