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To the same point, your narrative that [INSERT ANYTHING YOU WANT HERE] is also unsupported by any legal precedent, and it contradicted by countless historical events.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I'm pretty sure, that if it wasn't for the First Amendment here in the US, the war might have turned out differently for the North Vietnamese.

When I lived out west people would drive up logging roads and do targetvpractice in clear cut areas. Desert probably offers similar opportunities. Mounting gun to tripod would've allievate most of recoil issues as you could keep gun pointed on same vertical axis and just pan left to right.

The second amendment states you have a right to bear arms manufactured in and before 1791. Had our forefathers had knowledge of Glock 19's and Steyr Aug A3's and that someone would be able to kill 60 people from hundreds of feet away in 15 minutes on the 32nd floor of a public hotel-casino, I think the amendment would have been written more carefully. They were intelligent politicians. They weren't fortune tellers or omnipotent Gods.

We can and should continue improving the Constitution.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The Amendments are all pretty great. Go Freedom!

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Freedom is our Strength.

Eh. You'd be surprised. I fired a 50 cal rifle earlier this year that weighed over 40 pounds. The amount of weight of the gun caused the recoil to be pretty small. Firing a 30.06 rifle hurts my shoulder way more than the 50 cal.

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Yeah but guns!

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Well, if we really wanted to stop things like what happened in Las Vegas, we should suspend the 4th amendment rather than the 2nd.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'd like you to quote me where I said we should take guns. Go ahead and use the quote function, should be easy for you.

Don't waste your time too much though because I never said that. It probably speaks more to your mindset that anyone who questions the bullshit that you peddle is trying to take your guns or whatever nonsense you want to fantasize about.

I simply pointed out that if you are going to hold up Madison as the ultimate authority on all issues, that's a pretty dangerous path.

[quote="IMU"]

The second amendment states you have a right to bear arms manufactured in and before 1791. quote]

Wow. Didn't realize it said that. They certainly were specific. I guess they assumed no new guns would ever be produced past that date.

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Agreed, those Amendments and the rationally thought out and well applied restrictions on them are pretty great. Go Freedom!

What restrictions are you proposing that don't already exist?

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Freedom is our Strength.

https://youtu.be/CcwD1T7ixp0

Couldn't help but think about this song.

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Oh yeah, extended mags and any clips over 12 shots should also be illegal.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I just don't understand why the people saying the 2nd Amendment is necessary to fight tyranny are merely advocating for the maintenance of the status quo, rather than a far far more legally permissive environment. Current legal weapons in the US would be sorely inadequate to resist the paramilitary police and actual military forces. Yet very few people seem willing to advocate for legal assault weapons and rocket launchers for private citizens. Why?

The 2nd Amendment likewise says nothing about only properly licensed individuals having the right to bear arms, so if anything we should be pushing for laxer laws for purchasing guns. Here too however, it seems merely the status quo is being defended.

Oh no its the spooky black rifle.

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That mischaracterizes the level of knowledge the drafters had at the time about the lethality of firearms. When they wrote the amendment, guns weren't as necessarily accurate or efficient, but they were probably near the height of their historical lethality to humans. The ballistics technology at the time guaranteed serious mamimg to anyone struck by a shot, and modern medicine was of virtually no help to all but the luckiest of victims.

Even though they weren't in the presence of the most efficient killing tools, they were perfectly capable of understanding the core mechanics and purposes of both firearms and the result of gun violence.

Seeing that we are posting pictures I would like to add this one. It is a Browning 30-06 SA and aside from clip size there is technically/functionally no difference in the killing ability of that and those you posted. Those are REALLY SCARY though.

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Elections have consequences.

Actually it's pretty clear that Mr. Madison wanted an armed populace because he didn't want to have a standing army.

I thought they banned 30 plus already and also mags and clips are the same thing.

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Elections have consequences.

You keep stating this like it is a fact when it isn't.

If these guns aren't that capable then why are we worried about them?

Of course a militia would ultimately lose, but so would every country on Earth to our military.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Would such a law have stopped this attack?

I'm 100% certain the purpose of the Second Amendment isn't that some future generation have access to weapons from 1791.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I'm in marketing. I have to say the same thing multiple ways in order to maximize SEO efforts. Call it a bad habit.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Except the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the Taliban, and the Somalis.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Maybe because it takes significantly less force to kill unarmed private citizens than it would to defeat an army? And if we're claiming to be concerned about the loss of said civilian lives, we might want to rethink our gun laws?

Glad you agree then that the notion that the 2nd Amendment is actually protecting us from tyranny is rubbish.

JORR, I'm not proposing any.

I'm not a policy expert on gun violence or the ways to curtail and curb gun violence. I'm could not be more opposed to a ban on all firearms.

The problem is there can't be a logical and analytical conversation on what restrictions are acceptable, workable, constitutional and effective because a certain segment of the population thinks if you make them pass a back ground check at a gun show, we will inevitably confiscate every gun in the country.

That said, the thrust of the argument made by many around here is that reasonable and well thought out restrictions on the 2nd Amendment are de facto violations of the Constitution, or will lead to a banning of all guns just isn't fucking so. The First, Fourth, and Sixth Amendments, all tremendous protections of our liberty and safeguards against tyranny all have reasonable and well thought out restrictions. The 2nd Amendment should be no different, but a segment of the population (usually the segment that has some strange fantasy of getting into an armed conflict with someone of their own government) can't understand that reasonable and well thought out regulations of the Bill of Rights has been part and parcel of the Amendments for a long time.

As I already told you, none of those constitutes an apples-to-apples comparison to any hypothetical US uprising and they're either completely irrelevant to US gun laws in the present or actually count in favor of far laxer standards under the resistance to tyranny justification.

Why is it that the so called tyranny that people are protecting themselves from has to be some sort of all out war with the US Military? It can also be many different types of smaller skirmishes or confrontations with the present day police forces for example.

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Elections have consequences.