I don't disagree with that. But do you think America is in the same place now as it was in 1964? Maybe you do. Maybe it is. I don't think so though. Nobody is trying to attack a player or physically stop anyone from kneeling. Most people are just being quiet and changing the channel.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Yep.

MANY people care more about a symbol than real people.

SAD!

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And how did that Bill get to his office ?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I'm a huge 49ers fan. I pined for Kapernick while Harbaugh was there. The guy was exposed after he left as a guy who didn't throw all that well (you can go after his receivers for part of that) a guy who, if you kept him in pocket would have trouble over the course of a game. He wasn't a super bowl winning QB. But then, neither was Trent Dilfer.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

But symbols matter. That's why people get so angry when someone wears a swastika armband or hangs a noose in a tree.

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Freedom is our Strength.

if any of this results in the ceasing of playing the national anthem at sporting events, it will have been worth it as a byproduct.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

That's why I like you. No revisionist history here.

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Cant let this go. I tried.

You're making a ton of assumptions here. First, you're assuming that Kaepernick is the best available talent. Maybe there are those who disagree with you. In fact, I'm sure there are. He is a flawed QB with a lot of natural talent. There are a lot of systems that don't play well to that.

You're also assuming that the off-the-field stuff has no bearing on success. Should go without saying that that's not necessarily true.

Your last sentence is a complete assumption. You have no idea who teammates or coaches in San Francisco said. Were they going to come out at press conferences and complain about him?

It's a ridiculous idea that there is an obligation to sign him. Just total nonsense.

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viewtopic.php?f=100&t=76284

Great thread

Still waiting for my apology from Tres Uno Dos....

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No you're simply eliding the difference between people disliking what the Westboro Baptist Church stands for and their tactics and people claiming to be sympathetic to NFL players but tut-tutting anything they actually do in support of those beliefs. Very few people are going "Yes, God actually does hate fags, but I don't think the Westboro Baptist Church is getting their message out in the right way" in the way they are for NFL players. People hate the message and how it's delivered and don't deny either.

But yes, keep insisting that since they both can be described under the broad umbrella of protests, your comparison is completely valid

While extreme wording, many do believe in what God's view of gay people is. Many of those same people would be against the venue chosen by the Westboro Church.

They are though. If you would like a less extreme example I can provide one but it ultimately would not change the fact that it is a valid stance to take that you can disagree with the venue of a protest.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So if Kaepernick stands for the national anthem last year, the 49ers were likely to win more than 2 games?

No I'm not assuming either of these things. Players and coaches have all continued to say he wasn't a distraction even while he's been a free agent. The article I linked quotes numerous people saying just that. If you want to play the distraction card, it would help if there was actually evidence that he was in fact a distraction and negative influence. The biggest amount of assuming going on is from those who insist he simply had to have been one in San Francisco with nothing to back it up and that he'd inevitably be on for whichever team signed him.

JORR comparing our tremendous, beautiful flag to Nazi Germany and lynchings. SAD!

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Yeah, there are many people who think homosexuality is sinful who are simultaneously appalled by the Phelps family.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Who isnt? Guy marries a show girl and leaves her the team and she's putting together a team of losers to move to Miami?

Merely having a negative religious opinion on gay people again does not mean you are in agreement with Westboro. They literally think tragedies on earth are directly linked to tolerance of gay people and warrants their tactics, which is far different from merely viewing them as sinners.


But again, I never said it was categorically impossible to criticize the venue of a protest. I said I think there's good reason to believe that MANY of those doing so in response to the NFL players are being disingenous.

I'm a model of consistency surrounded by clouds of hypocrisy.

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I was a bit disappointed when he smoked weed, but it seems like he got his life together afterward and won a few more gold medals.

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Do you think all the people who agree with the kneelers or even all the kneelers have no pride in the flag of the United States?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We all are... except the first part. We are all inconsistent and we are all hypocrites.

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When is the right time to protest injustice and oppression? Should it be peaceful? Should it be silent? Where should the protests be held? How do you do it without pissing off the majority of white America? How do you get the majority white America to be supportive of your cause?

It's 2017 but JORR and MANY others are still making the tired arguments that have been made for decades. There will never be a time where the majority of white America will be sympathetic to any cause that doesn't involve them. People can tie themselves in knots trying to explain how or why this protest is being done improperly but the same will be true for every future protest.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

What? This comparison doesn't work at all. The substantive justification for kneeling has next to nothing to do with pride in the flag. In fact the whole reason Kaepernick knelt instead of sat was to show proper respect to the flag while protesting, despite the conservative spin that this is in fact all about hating the flag itself.

I agree with some of that. He should be able to protest, as should the others. That just doesn't entitle him to a job.

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Personally, I'm perplexed that the "Listen, white people..." and "It's time white people...." strategies haven't been unqualified successes in mobilizing white voters.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not making any argument at all. I'm just pointing out that MANY people don't like guys kneeling for the anthem. Do they have that right?

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Freedom is our Strength.

Same way college athletes could change the game. Take a game off, uniformly. Screw the NFL, speak to people who think you're entitled athletes by foregoing a paycheck, capture the national attention and the powers that be.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Don't forget "lobbying the school board to not redistrict your elite Manhattan school zone to include more blacks".