Yes. Small numbers. There were more Arabs there at the time but it was still a pretty empty place outside a few historically significant cities.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I have repeatedly been critical of US government aggression and overreaching on this board. You must have missed it. I've been critical of the US going into places we don't belong. That the US government should allow citizens to sue them for these debacles.

Having said all of that, the amount of lives lost in what you call debacles is nowhere near the lives lost at the hands of Russian dictators.

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LTG is going to want to know why im not taking issue with your shot at him.


Here is why

You engaged in back and forth, heard him out and determined he is insane. That's fine.


It's the "save your argument" you're just one of these ____, using the ____ playbook



Thank you

I shouldn't have responded at all. Just a moment of weakness. I won't do it again.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Why do you think you're better than LTG? Where did you get your history doctorate?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Telling someone what they are thinking you say?

When you have the facts as I do you need not resort to such juvenile rhetorical slights in order to illustrate your point. The mere fact that he believes that I'm insane is validation in of itself.

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Im just pointing out the difference between what he did and what I brought up about you.

I'm not going to make a big deal out of it but an insult is an insult. Doesn't matter the context. It happens a lot here and the only difference is in the inherent biases attached to it. I can take it and if I couldn't I'd either have stopped posting a while ago or insult with a greater degree of frequency. Again it's good.

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Here is the other part which makes no sense. Lenin and Stalin terrible guys. We will show just how much we mean business by starting wars in third rate countries. Yeah we will show Khruschev that we are opposed to communist dictatorships by starting a War in Vietnam. Vietnam is a Country 90% of the public had never heard of and most still couldn't find on a damn map. Yeah that will show them.

It was nothing more than a Trumped up crusade which accomplished little in the grand scheme of things.

Harkens back to the old NCAA line coined by Tark the Shark. "The NCAA will show the world that they are mad at Kentucky by placing Cleveland State on probation".

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I remember coming home from school, turning on the tv and learning that Grenada was a vital island the evil Cuban commies were going to seize.

Of course there was bs politics involved, especially after Ronnie cut and ran like the bitch he was(& most chickenhawks were/are) after Beirut.

Fear, loathing and lies work.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

There were a few hundred Americans being held hostage in Grenada if I recall.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

iirc, that was really just the Heartbreak Ridge version Clint popularized. The students & faculty never felt threatened in most reports.

Probably not as many as the 320 murdered marines the republicans dishonored in Beirut. And still don't talk publicly about.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Yeah med school students.

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Elections have consequences.

Try this article from the Right wing rag

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/28/world ... raise.html

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

That Beirut shit was indefensible. The ROE those guys where in was bullshit.
The only one worse was the Blackhawk down incident. If you ask guys who where there they wanted to go back and finis the job the next day. There was no way either one of those groups should have been deployed half-assed like they where.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

There was a significant increase in the number of Jewish people that immigrated to the region after the Balfour Declaration.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jew ... 17-present

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So?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Hey you're just doing your part to make sure that the active topics list has at least one thread with the word "Nazi" in the title for as long as possible! =P

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The unoccupied land stuff isn't justification. When it's said and done you had an indigenous population that had lived in the area for centuries. If anyone should have been granted statehood it should have been them. All of these rationales do not change the fact that they vastly outnumbered Jewish people at the time. Whether you speak of 1900, 1920, 0r 1948 the case remained the same.

For all of the Anti Semitic garbage that you continuously spew it's odd that you really haven't looked at this from the vantage point of Palestinians at all.


Prior to any talk of Partition or Zionism they outnumbered Jewish people 9 to 1 in that particular region. Even after Said talk they comprised 2/3rds of the population.

As far as the state of Israel and creation I will reiterate that it should have been created in Germany or somewhere else in Europe. It should have been part of Reparations for the Holocaust. I understand the psychological implications but Palestinians should not have been made to pay for crimes committed by Europeans. This is precisely what happened however.

There is no reason that a portion of Germany couldn't have been carved out for the purpose of creating an Israeli state. If you believe that the land where Israel resides was always the selected area then think again. Herzl suggested that Israel be placed in other parts of the world when he originally conceived the notion of Zionist state.

By placing Israel on this particular land it has virtually insured that there will be turmoil ad infinitum in that part of the world. No matter the division which exists amongst Arabs recent history has shown that they will unify when it comes to Israel. I don't understand how it will ever be of benefit to the Israelis with this being the case.

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That doesn't change what I said.

Maybe the Arab states should accept Israel like you have and the world can move on.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well I guess it's obvious that they haven't, can't, and more than likely won't. Your justifications from "well they used to live there" to "uninhabited land" are weak and your overall attitude has been for Palestinians to "get over it". Oobviously they can't and it is that sort of attitude which will ensure that there be unrest going forward. It's extremely easy for you in your rather cushy Anglo Saxon perched digs to suggest that they simply "get over It" but for the People that live in it it's not so simple. It's not just adjusting to an Israeli state that they must get over either. Palestinians are currently living in hell. It doesn't matter if you speak of those that accept Israel or those that don't. The treatment is still the same.

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Stop sending bombs in. Accept Israel as a permanent reality and things get better. Get over that land without a country became a country in the 40s.

.. .or keep fighting to get rid of Israel.

I know you say Israel should exist but it really comes off that you don't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I oppose the way it was created and your arguments in support of its creation have been weak that is why you keep focusing on the rather irrelevant existence angle. I

I accept it's existence. I'm not Palestinian and I haven't had to deal with it in anyway however. I don't presume to speak for how they should behave either. You on the other hand continuously do. I don't believe that Palestinians should seek the end of Israel. That accomplishes nothing. If they can accept a two state solution that would be fine but I don't think they will though. You expect them to disregard history because you have. In short it's extremely naive and it's also not particularly objective either.

You are obviously anti Palestinian by the way. For all of the insinuations regarding Anti Semitism it's obvious that you have no regard for the People whose land was actually taken.

"Your just deal with it" attitude is one of the primary reasons that they keep fighting by the way.

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You are grasping at straws now. I'm against anyone who wants to destroy Israel. That's it. There would be a Palestine now if they would have just done that.

Stop making excuses for them and say it is wrong for anyone to want to destroy Israel. It's that simple.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nah not that easy guy.

You keep posing the same question.

Should Israel exist? Simple question with really a simple answer.


Now pose the question the way it should be posed.

Should it have been created on land with an indigenous population that outnumbered it 9 to 1? Numbers in 1920.


I'm loving how you just assume that Palestinians should have rolled over too. It wasn't a good deal for them in 48 either by the way. Once again your bias is showing and it's obvious that you will never see it from their perspective.

That was obvious the moment you stated that Jews had a right to the land because their "ancestors had once resided there. Once I established that the Majority of the world's Jewish people have no connection to the region you pivoted to something else. It's obvious that you're biased.

I don't advocate for the destruction of Israel but I'm not a Palestinian. I haven't had to deal with Israel so my viewpoint is different. For those that do it's obvious that there isn't a solution in sight that will satisfy either side. Hopefully there won't be an all out war because that will exacerbate the problem. I don't think that Israel should abdicate their state at this point. I also cannot simply tell the Palestinians to accept their current conditions either. The conditions with which they are currently living under are "deplorable".

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There were mistakes made when it was created but I have no problem with it existing where it did. It's not like Germany, or France, or anywhere outside of Antarctica wouldn't have had the same issue. I mean, arguing that Jews have no claim to a place like Jerusalem is just ignoring history. It was a sparsely populated area outside of a few cities, with no established country, and no real desire to establish yet another Muslim state until the Jews started moving there, many of whom were fleeing Muslim countries.
Well, I don't think anyone has the right to any land. You have to establish a country and defend it. The point is that you are just choosing an arbitrary time to say "Muslims own this land for all time!" because they happened to be the majority at that time. The land has been the scene of battles and wars for thousands of years. If we have taken military action off the table to decide it, then we also can't decide that the "last winners" are the rightful owners of the land forever. In a hypothetical world where Muslims and Jews and Christians didn't fight for thousands of years on that land I am positive the Jewish population would be much larger.

You are excusing the behavior of a group that literally wants to destroy Israel though. That's the point. You don't have to do that. You can feel sorry for the Palestinians, as I do too, and think they should have a country, as I do too, without supporting what they are doing now. My opinion was forever set when I was in NYC, a huge multicultural city, full of educated and enlightened people, and in broad daylight a large protest group was marching shouting "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free". These weren't oppressed Palestinians who just wanted their own land. These weren't indoctrinated Muslims who don't have access to information. These were normal Americans who were literally marching in a major American city for the destruction of Israel. So, pardon me if I'm not exactly a fan of your "I don't want Israel destroyed, but I can't blame anyone who wants Israel destroyed" stance.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Boom! I win! Lick it Nas!

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

by the way, what is happening here?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Give my guy enough time and he'll disagree with that point. I believe that he may have already taken the other side when we had this debate during the summer.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!