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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:24 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
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Kill everyone at 85 and take all the money they have left.


What if they marry IceGirl on the eve of their 85th birthday? Does she get the money still?



She would have to appear before the Junta.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
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I mean, I always figure, they go through eleventy million dollars and years of school, they deserve it.


So how do we lower the cost of medicine otherwise?

Ban fast food

Death panels for people over 300 lbs?


And for people with Hep C and Opioid Dependency.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:49 pm 
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I am not too concerned about paying the doctors. I do think we should abolish big pharm advertising like they do in every other country. It is just way too hard to get any of this done because of all the lobby money against it.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:52 pm 
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newper wrote:
I am not too concerned about paying the doctors. I do think we should abolish big pharm advertising like they do in every other country. It is just way too hard to get any of this done because of all the lobby money against it.

at the end of the day you still need a doctor to write you a scrip. Doctors need to just say no to necessary meds and only prescribe what is required.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:55 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
newper wrote:
I am not too concerned about paying the doctors. I do think we should abolish big pharm advertising like they do in every other country. It is just way too hard to get any of this done because of all the lobby money against it.

at the end of the day you still need a doctor to write you a scrip. Doctors need to just say no to necessary meds and only prescribe what is required.

Yep, so no reason to influence everyone with ads.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:57 pm 
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newper wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
newper wrote:
I am not too concerned about paying the doctors. I do think we should abolish big pharm advertising like they do in every other country. It is just way too hard to get any of this done because of all the lobby money against it.

at the end of the day you still need a doctor to write you a scrip. Doctors need to just say no to necessary meds and only prescribe what is required.

Yep, so no reason to influence everyone with ads.

once again, it is up to the medical professional with the decade of training to write it or not. Perhaps if insurance looked into it more or required doctors to justify it and wouldn't cover it otherwise, we wouldn't have this issue.

I mean look at the opioid crisis. Prescription opioid should exist as there are the rare cases that quire them, but then doctors go ahead and write everyone who asks for them a prescription. The doctors need to be the one saying no when something is not needed for treatment.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:21 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I mean look at the opioid crisis. Prescription opioid should exist as there are the rare cases that quire them, but then doctors go ahead and write everyone who asks for them a prescription. The doctors need to be the one saying no when something is not needed for treatment.


But that conflicts with the "customer is always right" axiom that undergirds so much of The Market. But even that's kind of a misdirection; it's more about the pharma reps than patients badgering their doctors for pills.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:24 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Great question. We overconsume medical services in part due to poor health and chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes. Look at your parents' pill regimens (if they are still around).

Why do we have poor health and how do we preemptively address chronic conditions?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:33 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I mean look at the opioid crisis. Prescription opioid should exist as there are the rare cases that quire them, but then doctors go ahead and write everyone who asks for them a prescription. The doctors need to be the one saying no when something is not needed for treatment.


But that conflicts with the "customer is always right" axiom that undergirds so much of The Market. But even that's kind of a misdirection; it's more about the pharma reps than patients badgering their doctors for pills.

and it is the job of the doctor (the educated professional in the field) to explain to their patient (who just did a fucking Google search) why a pill should or shouldn't be used for their case.

Doctors need to assert themselves more. heck, if they did that in pediatrician offices, I bet it would help curb the anti-vaxxer trend from moronic parents who think they are also an MD because they read a FB post from a quack.

As the person with a decade of professional training, the doctors need to stand up as the voice of reason and learn to say no.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:34 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
and it is the job of the doctor (the educated professional in the field) to explain to their patient (who just did a fucking Google search) why a pill should or shouldn't be used for their case.

Doctors need to assert themselves more. heck, if they did that in pediatrician offices, I bet it would help curb the anti-vaxxer trend from moronic parents who think they are also an MD because they read a FB post from a quack.

As the person with a decade of professional training, the doctors need to stand up as the voice of reason and learn to say no.


I agree with you wholeheartedly on this but it was really rude to call out Dan Bernstein like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:35 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Great question. We overconsume medical services in part due to poor health and chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes. Look at your parents' pill regimens (if they are still around).

Why do we have poor health and how do we preemptively address chronic conditions?

We have poor health because the vast majority of our citizens aren't concerned with being healthy, and collectively as a country we are wealthy and comfortable enough to indulge that laziness. I don't think you can legislate that problem away.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:37 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I mean look at the opioid crisis. Prescription opioid should exist as there are the rare cases that quire them, but then doctors go ahead and write everyone who asks for them a prescription. The doctors need to be the one saying no when something is not needed for treatment.


But that conflicts with the "customer is always right" axiom that undergirds so much of The Market. But even that's kind of a misdirection; it's more about the pharma reps than patients badgering their doctors for pills.

and it is the job of the doctor (the educated professional in the field) to explain to their patient (who just did a fucking Google search) why a pill should or shouldn't be used for their case.

Doctors need to assert themselves more. heck, if they did that in pediatrician offices, I bet it would help curb the anti-vaxxer trend from moronic parents who think they are also an MD because they read a FB post from a quack.

As the person with a decade of professional training, the doctors need to stand up as the voice of reason and learn to say no.

I could be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure timidness on the part of doctors isn't a relevant factor in batshit crazy parents endangering their kids and others kids.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:37 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Great question. We overconsume medical services in part due to poor health and chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes. Look at your parents' pill regimens (if they are still around).

Why do we have poor health and how do we preemptively address chronic conditions?

We have poor health because the vast majority of our citizens aren't concerned with being healthy, and collectively as a country we are wealthy and comfortable enough to indulge that laziness. I don't think you can legislate that problem away.

How do we better concern our population with our health? I don't think you can "legislate it away" either, but how could we nonetheless nudge people in the right direction? Or do we say no, you can't, we have the right to be a nation of fatasses, and then deny them treatment for the lifestyles they're encouraged to live?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:39 am 
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How the anti-vax movement is equal parts left and right interests me. It's one of the few times Horseshoe Theory bears out. PARENTS, VACCINATE YOUR KIDS.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:39 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Great question. We overconsume medical services in part due to poor health and chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes. Look at your parents' pill regimens (if they are still around).

Why do we have poor health and how do we preemptively address chronic conditions?

We have poor health because the vast majority of our citizens aren't concerned with being healthy, and collectively as a country we are wealthy and comfortable enough to indulge that laziness. I don't think you can legislate that problem away.

yeah, it's mostly a personal choice. We have the final say on what we eat, how much of it we eat, and how active we are.

I personally made a choice to cut out certain unhealthy items from my diet over the last few years and it has allowed me to maintain a healthy weight. I very easily could eat a bunch of shit and balloon to 200+ if I lacked self-discipline. Even then I would be the 1st to admit I could probably use more physical activity to further add to my health.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:41 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
How the anti-vax movement is equal parts left and right interests me. It's one of the few times Horseshoe Theory bears out. PARENTS, VACCINATE YOUR KIDS.

Easy, because extremists on both sides love conspiracy theories.

leftists see evil pharma corporation. (ignoring the fact pharamceutical companies probably would make more if we all caught the vaccine preventable diseases)
RWNJs see Bill Gates NWO population control (ignoring the fact population and life expectancy have jumped since vaccines were introduced)

Edit:

Further to this point, the conspiracy theory notion also shows why antisemitism is prevalent on both the left and right extremist camps.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:43 am 
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"Personal choice" and the blame of the "end-users," so to speak, of our food industry seems like such a copout to me. People really enjoy this product that's been engineered to taste great, be virtually addictive, have little nutritional value, and cause long-term health problems from the overconsumption it's designed to encourage. Fuck 'em!

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:45 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Great question. We overconsume medical services in part due to poor health and chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes. Look at your parents' pill regimens (if they are still around).

Why do we have poor health and how do we preemptively address chronic conditions?

We have poor health because the vast majority of our citizens aren't concerned with being healthy, and collectively as a country we are wealthy and comfortable enough to indulge that laziness. I don't think you can legislate that problem away.

How do we better concern our population with our health? I don't think you can "legislate it away" either, but how could we nonetheless nudge people in the right direction? Or do we say no, you can't, we have the right to be a nation of fatasses, and then deny them treatment for the lifestyles they're encouraged to live?

I don't know the right answer. I will say this - we live in the Information Age where even a majority of people who live in poverty have access to the internet. I get that our society encourages unhealthiness on several levels from poor people, but I still don't view it as a valid excuse. I think we can agree that the VAST majority of people who live unhealthy lifestyles(including myself in this) know they can be healthier and know how to achieve that, they simply don't. I don't know how to fix that outside of government coercion, and even that I don't think would work.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:48 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
"Personal choice" and the blame of the "end-users," so to speak, of our food industry seems like such a copout to me. People really enjoy this product that's been engineered to taste great, be virtually addictive, have little nutritional value, and cause long-term health problems from the overconsumption it's designed to encourage. Fuck 'em!

Nah man that's a weak excuse. You telling me people that eat fast food 4x or more a week or order a large pizza to themselves and then fall asleep on the couch immediately afterward don't know that shit is horrible for you? Bullshit.

I smoke cigarettes. Contrary to popular belief, im not a complete fucking idiot and know this is one of the dumbest things you can do but I haven't quit yet. Should I blame tobacco companies still in 2017 for my addiction? Hell no. It's my fault I continue to smoke and be a moron. I view the fast food industry the same way.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:53 am 
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Do they subsist on fast food and frozen pizzas because they want to or because they have to?

FavreFan wrote:
I don't know the right answer. I will say this - we live in the Information Age where even a majority of people who live in poverty have access to the internet. I get that our society encourages unhealthiness on several levels from poor people, but I still don't view it as a valid excuse.

So your solution to systemic issues with the quality and availability of food in our country is Google It?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:58 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Do they subsist on fast food and frozen pizzas because they want to or because they have to?

FavreFan wrote:
I don't know the right answer. I will say this - we live in the Information Age where even a majority of people who live in poverty have access to the internet. I get that our society encourages unhealthiness on several levels from poor people, but I still don't view it as a valid excuse.

So your solution to systemic issues with the quality and availability of food in our country is Google It?

I think the majority of health problems in this country are caused by a lack of self restraint and personal responsibility, not systemic issues with the quality and availability of food. You disagree?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:09 am 
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Yes, I do. The idea that we'd all be in better shape if we just worked at it a little harder, dangit, sounds like a uniquely American pathology. Shirking everything off on a lack of "personal responsibility" is lazy and mean -- it targets the people at the bottom of the pyramid rather than the top. And it's not even just that the food we eat, most often out of affordability and convenience, is bad for us. We have plenty of ways that we make ourselves sicker than other people, but I don't think drinking too much or sitting too much or stressing ourselves out too much are merely the results of an insufficient Protestant work ethic. People make poor and self-destructive decisions all around the world. Why don't they get as sick as we do?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:13 am 
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Fair enough. It's possible I'm projecting my own shortcomings on to others, but I simply can't agree with that. I do think our society does make it tougher to eat healthy and stay in shape. I don't think it makes it prohibitive though, even for those living in poverty. I may be neglecting to appreciate the systemic issues in place preventing a healthier society(although I don't think I am and have acknowledged them), but I think you are severely underestimating the role straight laziness plays in all of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:15 am 
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I do my best but am as guilty as anyone of eating like crap from time to time. Not counting the homeless how is it systemic that the poor may choose to eat unhealthy?

Everyone for the most part has $10 in their pocket. How does the system make one person choose a bag of frozen chicken breasts and a box of minute rice to make a few dinners while drinking water? Then also forces the other person to pick up two frozen pizzas a bag of Doritos and a two liter of coke for one meal?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:12 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Great question. We overconsume medical services in part due to poor health and chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes. Look at your parents' pill regimens (if they are still around).

Why do we have poor health and how do we preemptively address chronic conditions?

We have poor health because the vast majority of our citizens aren't concerned with being healthy, and collectively as a country we are wealthy and comfortable enough to indulge that laziness. I don't think you can legislate that problem away.

How do we better concern our population with our health?

Celebrity PSA's on why it's COOL to be Healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:13 am 
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It's a little pricier to eat healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:16 am 
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It's biology. Humans are meant to be physically active for many hours during the day. We aren't now and evolution doesn't happen fast. Other countries are seeing obesity rates soar as they have more jobs that aren't physical.

I also thinks it's time to ignore any argument that includes the 'magic European way' outright. It's almost always cherrypicked garbage.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:20 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's biology. Humans are meant to be physically active for many hours during the day. We aren't now and evolution doesn't happen fast. Other countries are seeing obesity rates soar as they have more jobs that aren't physical.

I also thinks it's time to ignore any argument that includes the 'magic European way' outright. It's almost always cherrypicked garbage.

At a glance, I saw Magic and thought you were going to make some sort of joke/reference to Magic Johnson being our most healthy citizen.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:33 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Yes, I do. The idea that we'd all be in better shape if we just worked at it a little harder, dangit, sounds like a uniquely American pathology. Shirking everything off on a lack of "personal responsibility" is lazy and mean -- it targets the people at the bottom of the pyramid rather than the top. And it's not even just that the food we eat, most often out of affordability and convenience, is bad for us. We have plenty of ways that we make ourselves sicker than other people, but I don't think drinking too much or sitting too much or stressing ourselves out too much are merely the results of an insufficient Protestant work ethic. People make poor and self-destructive decisions all around the world. Why don't they get as sick as we do?


Since I believe in maximum freedom possible, I will not nor would I advocate that our government make people's choices for them. That means if they want to smoke pot, drink Coca Cola, and eat French fries as their base diet, I am ok with that.

But when someone on here asks why our health care costs are so high, it is most obviously because we overconsume medical services and prescription drugs.

Now if you want to advocate that the government bans junk food and pharma ads, then start your political movement.

At the nd of the day, the more freedom we allow citizens, the more they are allowed to make their own mistakes. There are societal costs to our system. We see that in the gun debate. We see that in all things financial. Giving people a lot of choices and freedoms does then require those individuals to look out for themselves in large part.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor's Salaries
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:42 am 
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The problem is that the negative effect of sugar has been grossly underestimated. Even if you choose to try and avoid having a lot it is very hard to do so. Most packaged products have a large amount of it. It's fine in controlled numbers but that gets hard to control when you have to eat more than meat and vegetables.

You can't really ban it but maybe some rules on packaging describing just how much sugar is in that would be good. It worked pretty good for calories on fast food menus.

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