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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:05 am 
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14 is indefensible.


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:06 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I'm comfortable calling a 27 year old plying a 14 year old with liquor and trying to get in his pants a pedophile.



The term "plying with liquor" is pretty Victorian, isn't it? Maybe we need to find a feinting couch.

Seriously, I think people grow up and they forget what they were like in their mid-teens. I'm gonna say a 14 year old Peeps wasn't some innocent naif. You were probably walking around constantly thinking about getting in the pants of little Bridget from Queen of Peace.

Anyway, I'll say again, I think there is quite a divide between what is considered "acceptable" in mainstream, i.e, "straight" culture and what is a norm within a society that encompasses about 5% of the population, maybe.

But I just had a great idea for a killer app. A dating app strictly for gay teens. Actually, it probably exists.


14 year old Peeps was a terror. And Bridget was also 14. Thats the difference.

If 27 year old Peeps was trying to get Bridget's high school freshman sister drunk and sleep with her, he'd be labeled a pedophile.


Right, but you're judging using the standards/mores of mainstream cis culture. When we really start talking about this stuff, most people aren't quite as liberal as they think they are.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:07 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I'm comfortable calling a 27 year old plying a 14 year old with liquor and trying to get in his pants a pedophile.

Yeah. This is a strange turn. The rules/laws don't change because of sexual orientation.

The next step is to say this was considered "normal" in Hollywood and therefore it doesn't qualify either.

Don't give kids/teenagers alcohol and don't try and sleep with them. It's not a difficult thing to avoid.

I kinda see what JORR is saying though about the gay teenager's dilemma.


What if the kid was 16, Spacey was 29 and no alcohol?
Just like with anything else, it is the responsibility of the 29 year old to say no.

Depends what state they are in, doesnt it?
Well, it may be legal some places. It still shouldn't be done.

That's an interesting discussion. I dont think on their 18th birthday there is some magic transformation to maturity.

If society had picked 16, you'd probably be fine with it.


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:08 am 
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SuperMario wrote:
Yeah, if gay people want to fight for equal rights and representative laws and rules, then pedophilia applies as well.

Sad to hear. I always liked Spacey as an actor. Don't think I'll ever be able to watch American Beauty or Usual Suspects again.


Don't be a drama queen. Every time you turn on sports or watch a movie, there are people involved who have done bad things. Just enjoy programming for what it is and don't worry so much about the criminal histories of the entertainers. You've also have to avoid listening to music artists too.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:10 am 
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He's probably so glad that this news was broken on indictment day

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:10 am 
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denisdman wrote:
SuperMario wrote:
Yeah, if gay people want to fight for equal rights and representative laws and rules, then pedophilia applies as well.

Sad to hear. I always liked Spacey as an actor. Don't think I'll ever be able to watch American Beauty or Usual Suspects again.


Don't be a drama queen. Every time you turn on sports or watch a movie, there are people involved who have done bad things. Just enjoy programming for what it is and don't worry so much about the criminal histories of the entertainers. You've also have to avoid listening to music artists too.

I work with a guy who is pretty far right and once a celebrity does anything he doesnt like politically, he's OUT for good.

He really has no TV or Movies to watch anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The 29 year old was once a shy, confused 14 year old who likely had his first sexual experience with a much older guy as well.
Extend this out to everyone and see how well it goes. Being abused doesn't give you a pass to abuse.



Here's the disconnect. Within the "gay community" such a thing isn't considered abuse. And I don't want to get into a silly discussion about drawing a line at some particular age, 14 or 15 or 16. If we're talking about a gay 25 year old and a gay 16 year old drinking at the same party, the 25 year old approaching the younger guy isn't some horrific social faux pas the way it would be in the straight world. In fact, the 16 year old probably wouldn't be at such a party.

Milo took a bunch of heat for discussing his first sexual experience with a much older man, didn't he? I think he was surprised because in his circles that was normal.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:13 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
SuperMario wrote:
Yeah, if gay people want to fight for equal rights and representative laws and rules, then pedophilia applies as well.

Sad to hear. I always liked Spacey as an actor. Don't think I'll ever be able to watch American Beauty or Usual Suspects again.


Don't be a drama queen. Every time you turn on sports or watch a movie, there are people involved who have done bad things. Just enjoy programming for what it is and don't worry so much about the criminal histories of the entertainers. You've also have to avoid listening to music artists too.

I work with a guy who is pretty far right and once a celebrity does anything he doesnt like politically, he's OUT for good.

He really has no TV or Movies to watch anymore.


I think we'd all prefer our athletes to be Warrick Dunn. Those types of guys are a lot more fun to root for. But just enjoy entertainment for what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:15 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Milo took a bunch of heat for discussing his first sexual experience with a much older man, didn't he? I think he was surprised because in his circles that was normal.


Yes he did. I have no clue what is acceptable in that community, but you certainly make a compelling argument. I never really thought about it in those terms.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:15 am 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
SuperMario wrote:
Yeah, if gay people want to fight for equal rights and representative laws and rules, then pedophilia applies as well.

Sad to hear. I always liked Spacey as an actor. Don't think I'll ever be able to watch American Beauty or Usual Suspects again.


Don't be a drama queen. Every time you turn on sports or watch a movie, there are people involved who have done bad things. Just enjoy programming for what it is and don't worry so much about the criminal histories of the entertainers. You've also have to avoid listening to music artists too.

I work with a guy who is pretty far right and once a celebrity does anything he doesnt like politically, he's OUT for good.

He really has no TV or Movies to watch anymore.


I think we'd all prefer our athletes to be Warrick Dunn. Those types of guys are a lot more fun to root for. But just enjoy entertainment for what it is.

It'll probably come out that the house foundation is a front for eating children or some shit.


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:19 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Milo took a bunch of heat for discussing his first sexual experience with a much older man, didn't he? I think he was surprised because in his circles that was normal.


Yes he did. I have no clue what is acceptable in that community, but you certainly make a compelling argument. I never really thought about it in those terms.



Maybe "acceptable" isn't the right word. I think "common" is probably better. I think I've read Dan Savage expressing an opinion similar to Rick's. But I don't think Savage is the voice of all gay men either. He went to Quigley so he may be more conservative than many. Not all gay men have the same opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:35 am 
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In Jorr's scenario it would be one thing for a younger gay guy to be seeking out an older man. He would have the power in that sense. Older guy pressuring some younger guy is not the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:46 am 
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After Star Trek actor Anthony Rapp accused Spacey of making a sexual advance on him at a party when he was just 14, Hollywood actor Spacey posted a statement on Twitter apologising for any wrongdoing while also coming out as gay. However, it seems MacFarlane may have hinted at this in a season 4 episode of Family Guy from 12 years ago. Twitter user Josh Jordan found the resurfaced clip and posted it online today, writing: ‘Family Guy with the Kevin Spacey reference twelve years ago… creepy.’ The clip features Stewie Griffin – the Family Guy baby – running across a room shouting ‘Help! I’ve escaped from Kevin Spacey’s basement! Help me!’

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/30/seth-macf ... to=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:48 am 
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Gay or not, the laws are the same. Child marriages may be common in some 3rd world cultures, but when people immigrate over here, we expect our laws regarding this to trump the social norms of their indigenous society.

Whether it is normal in the gay community or not does not matter. What does matter is that a 27 year old having sex with a 14 year old in the state of New York (where I believe it happened) is 3rd degree rape so this is at the very least attempted rape.

It's worth noting that it is expected others will come forward now in regards to Spacey. He's more fucked than Harvey Weinstein

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:52 am 
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Just because it may be common in the gay community doesn't mean its' right and we should just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "well, he's gay" when a 26 y/o prays on a 14 y/o.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:59 am 
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Joe supports the NAMBLA position

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:03 am 
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Franky T wrote:
Just because it may be common in the gay community doesn't mean its' right and we should just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "well, he's gay" when a 26 y/o prays on a 14 y/o.

It will be interesting to see if the gay community renounces him for using his sexuality as an excuse/shield. I give Wanda Sykes credit for calling him out.


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:12 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe supports the NAMBLA position


I haven't really thought about what I support. I don't have to worry about it. I'm just pointing out what is and why it's that way.

Also, I don't think anyone- regardless of the ages or orientation of those concerned- pressuring anyone into sex is right. But then we get into a discussion of what "pressure" is. I'm sure for a guy as handsome as a good dolphin panties drop with nary a word. Most of us aren't so lucky.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:13 am 
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Last edited by rogers park bryan on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:16 am 
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Heisenberg wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Just because it may be common in the gay community doesn't mean its' right and we should just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "well, he's gay" when a 26 y/o prays on a 14 y/o.

It will be interesting to see if the gay community renounces him for using his sexuality as an excuse/shield. I give Wanda Sykes credit for calling him out.

They seem to be doing just that.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:21 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Gay or not, the laws are the same. Child marriages may be common in some 3rd world cultures, but when people immigrate over here, we expect our laws regarding this to trump the social norms of their indigenous society.


Are you making a case against multiculturalism?

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:22 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
That's an interesting discussion. I dont think on their 18th birthday there is some magic transformation to maturity.

If society had picked 16, you'd probably be fine with it.

Any number would be imperfect but 18 is pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:26 am 
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I find it interesting that Seacrest has so often been chided for his religion-based moralizing, yet many who have taken issue with him are moralizing in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:28 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The 29 year old was once a shy, confused 14 year old who likely had his first sexual experience with a much older guy as well.
Extend this out to everyone and see how well it goes. Being abused doesn't give you a pass to abuse.



Here's the disconnect. Within the "gay community" such a thing isn't considered abuse. And I don't want to get into a silly discussion about drawing a line at some particular age, 14 or 15 or 16. If we're talking about a gay 25 year old and a gay 16 year old drinking at the same party, the 25 year old approaching the younger guy isn't some horrific social faux pas the way it would be in the straight world. In fact, the 16 year old probably wouldn't be at such a party.

Milo took a bunch of heat for discussing his first sexual experience with a much older man, didn't he? I think he was surprised because in his circles that was normal.

Sexual assault and pedophilia is supposedly common in Hollywood. It doesn't make it right.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:30 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The 29 year old was once a shy, confused 14 year old who likely had his first sexual experience with a much older guy as well.
Extend this out to everyone and see how well it goes. Being abused doesn't give you a pass to abuse.



Here's the disconnect. Within the "gay community" such a thing isn't considered abuse. And I don't want to get into a silly discussion about drawing a line at some particular age, 14 or 15 or 16. If we're talking about a gay 25 year old and a gay 16 year old drinking at the same party, the 25 year old approaching the younger guy isn't some horrific social faux pas the way it would be in the straight world. In fact, the 16 year old probably wouldn't be at such a party.

Milo took a bunch of heat for discussing his first sexual experience with a much older man, didn't he? I think he was surprised because in his circles that was normal.

Sexual assault and pedophilia is supposedly common in Hollywood. It doesn't make it right.


What is your basis for judging what's "right"?

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:34 am 
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The old cultural relativism argument. We are a society based on laws that we have collectively agreed to be bound by that define what's "right".

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:39 am 
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Franky T wrote:
The old cultural relativism argument. We are a society based on laws that we have collectively agreed to be bound by that define what's "right".


But what is the basis for society drawing lines where it does? Do you just feel it in your bones? At least Seacrest and ISIS are following ancient texts.

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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:40 am 
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btw this thread title sucks. NY Daily News is a candidate for DBOTW pretty much every day. Please update the title to indicate it's regarding the Kevin Spacey news..


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:42 am 
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Yeah, despite the sad state of our society that ushers young gay men into relationships with older men already out (or not) because the young men aren't comfortable or even able to come out to those around them, it is still wrong, even to the point of criminal, for that older man to attempt to engage in sexual acts with the minor.


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 Post subject: Re: NY Daily News
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:44 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Yeah, despite the sad state of our society that ushers young gay men into relationships with older men already out (or not) because the young men aren't comfortable or even able to come out to those around them, it is still wrong, even to the point of criminal, for that older man to attempt to engage in sexual acts with the minor.


But don't you find it disingenuous for society to create a situation and then be aghast at the response?

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