Yep. Religious guys who hear voices calling them are in short supply.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I'll take a wacko fighting a just cause over a perfectly sane man allowing evil to prevail.

He was a failure at everything in life, but I cannot condemn the man. In fact, he truly was the greatest American ever. In fact, the only American living today who can compare to John Brown's courageous acts would be Edward Snowden. Funny thing how both are considered to be "traitors" by the cocksuckers in government.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

years ago on this board i said john brown did more to end slavery than lincoln did. i think irish boy told me "in today's world, john brown would be labeled a terrorist".

I hate Libertarians again.

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He would, by Rick

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Both statements are factually correct.

Without John Brown, there is no Civil War (or if there is it is decades later)

He would also certainly be labeled a terrorist and traitor.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Possibly, but ultimately terrorists and traitors need to be judged by the rightfullness of their cause and the actions they took and if they were justified.

Snowden would be a hero if he hadn't run to Russia to aid them. Instead, his legacy is that he did a good thing and then went to a much worse country for rights and has aided them for years.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Russia was not his first choice. He ran to HK and intended to go elsewhere, but the US pretty much blocked his entry to most countries. Any friendly government made it clear they would turn him over. The US forced him to flee to Russia.

Also, while in Russia he has been very critical of Putin. He's no fucking stooge like Assange. He has said things about Putin that would get a Russian locked in prison until he disappeared. I guess because of his status, he is safe (for now)

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I understand that you are a pacifist. But there is a war going on. You may not take up arms, but you have to pick a side.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Turning himself in would have been preferable if he truly had the altruistic goals he claimed. That would have been the trial of the decade. I'm guessing he would have been pardoned eventually even if he lost.

There is little doubt that he has shared everything he knows with them, and has used his technical knowledge to aid Russia.

He was a whistleblower. We tend to give whistleblowers a lot of leeway.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

At least in terms of a civil war over abortion, I have made it clear what side I would take regardless of what side my home state would be on.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yes, whichever side the feds in D.C. supported. A most principled stand indeed!

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Freedom is our Strength.

I honestly don't blame him one bit for doing what he did. If this country truly had avenues for whistleblowers to out blatant violations of constitutional rights, he wouldn't have had to run to Glenn Greenwald and do what he did.

Once again, he tried to flee to a neutral country, but the US exerted diplomatic pressure to stop that. We in effect drove him into Russia's arms and if he had to give information to save his life, then I can't blame him. We drove him there and we deserve the repercussions of that. The NSA and CIA deserve whatever damage was done to them as a result of this. I say that wholeheartedly.

Also, given the nature of the details he exposed, I highly doubt he would receive a publicly open trial. Edward Snowden is the greatest hero of our time. If this generation doesn't see it, then perhaps future ones will.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

It is more than you give me credit for. We are a country with a process that doesn't involve violence to come up with these things. Even if I disagree with the current law it needs to be a very high bar to take up arms against your country over it.

I don't believe it is right for anti-abortion protesters to bomb abortion clinics either. I fully support their rights to try and work politically to change the law. I view this as a more extreme version of that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Isn't that more or less what Shelby Foote was saying in the Civil War documentary? (and this was also what Gen Kelly was parroting. He basically repeated what Foote said word for word in the Ken Burns doc)

For the record, Burns probably gave Foote a bit too much of a voice in that documentary.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Save his life? He should have walked into a reporters office in Manhattan the moment it was released.

I believe that much of his rationale for doing this was more than just wanting to expose government issues. I actually agree his initial actions were important but he also has turned himself into an enemy combatant by cozying up with a country that is UNDENIABLY worse than we are at this kind of stuff.

Of course he would. It's ludicrous to think that the United States could have killed him or locked him away and everyone would just forget.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So we're back to the joke leash made. Slavery was the law. Abolitionists were extremists who should have been working politically to change the law.

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Freedom is our Strength.

The reporter he was giving the info to was in Brazil (American journalist, but he has opted to live as an expat)

Once again, him fleeing to Russia does not happen if we don't block his entry to a neutral country. We drove him into their arms and once again we deserve whatever repercussions come from that.

As for Snowden, I doubt he would receive a trial from the Holder justice department, which is the same one which drew up a legal defense to justify the use of drones to kill an American on US soil. Snowden did what he had to and he will one day be regarded as a hero.

Once again, if we don't exert pressure on every nation that is semi-friendly to us, he doesn't go to Russia. That was probably his last choice to go.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Today, I would certainly feel that military action to stop slavery would be justified. I'm going to say that as a Northerner I would have felt the same way in the Civil War era but as you have pointed out I have no way of knowing that for certain.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What is the government going to do? Would they have done a drone strike on the New York Times or CNN headquarters?

Chelsea Manning got a fair trial and then got pardoned. He had that option. It's not always easy to be a hero and a patriot. It's not heroic or a patriot to show the American public something important to know and then go to a place that is even worse for it and aid them. If the goal was to make the world a better place then you don't aid Russia.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Right, but that's informed by your personal values and those values are informed by the time in which you live. A future Boilermaker Rick might say, "I would certainly feel that military action to stop abortion would be justified." And a past Boilermaker Rick may have said, "Well, I think slavery is bad but I visited Uncle Beauregard's plantation when I was a teenager and he treated his slaves well. I don't want to go to war about it. I'm too busy writing letters to spanky and Juice's Lecture Notes telling them how stupid they are."

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Freedom is our Strength.

He rounded up free slaves in the north and sold them into slavery in the south during the war. After the war he didn't think black people were smart enough to vote which was just a way of saying he didn't want them voting for republicans.

Lee used to get off on seeing his slaves tortured by overseers. You're a nitwit.

The difference being that I'm not choosing to fight against my own country for or against it. There is a big difference between thinking slavery was ok, and thinking slavery was so acceptable you would lead an army against your own country to try and keep it going. If you lead an army against the United States of America you better be completely sure that you are on "the right side of history" or you deserve to be viewed poorly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Again, the concept of the U.S. as a country/nation in 1860 was far different than it is today. This isn't a perfect analogy, but it's like the way we see MLB today as just "baseball", a single entity. My grandfather understood MLB to be separate leagues that really had nothing to do with each other except that they played a series each year to determine a champion.

And I'm not sure what the "right side of history" means from a moral standpoint. If the South had won the war, it wouldn't make slavery less terrible.

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Freedom is our Strength.

About half the country was traitors, geographically. So is it any surprise that the half that was will celebrate the folks that led the rebellion?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

John Brown also had no problem conceptualizing what was moral and immoral. What is humane and inhumane transcends eras. There isn't an era which makes it understandable.

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What? No we don't. The Obama administration had a horrendous record when it comes to not prosecuting whistleblowers.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Oh, he definitely would have faced a trial. That's the whole point. Whether he was convicted, and whether he was pardoned is far more important especially when the alternative is going to Russia and aiding them in any way you can to be able to stay.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The Obama administration also had a terrible record with pardoning whistleblowers. Something tells me Trump definitely wouldn't have pardoned him. And then who knows how far into the future it would be. If you want to criticize him, fine, but you seem to be ignoring the federal government is more to blame than he is for his actions. They created a situation where a Snowden was inevitable, and also didn't have proper channels in place for whistleblowers to safely come forward.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul