For gun crimes?

That's pretty crazy.

No it seems people are giving up on total bans and discussing harsh penalties instead.

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Elections have consequences.

Put up a chart of the number of firearms in each country, and the chart will look similarly. More guns = more gun deaths. To pretend otherwise is pure fantasy.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Go to this link for an Illinois FOID card and click on learn more/Am I eligible. Check out the first few requirements. Can't be adjudicated to be mentally defective, cannot have been institutionalized etc.

I think what you linked was Trump reversing something that some said was trying to limit people that ever took Xanax from getting a gun.

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Elections have consequences.

It is also possible there will be judicial or other activists trying to circumnavigate the mandatory minimums. This happens all the time with judges and DAs charging differently to avoid some getting the so called third strike.

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Elections have consequences.

I said this yesterday.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Hey Peeps
on #4 in Cook county there is such a law on the books. It is also one of the first charges the States Atty will let the offender plea out of,ie not be charged too.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Yep. That was my first thought when I saw it ass well. Just imagine if twenty years ago they started to focus all the money spent trying to ban guns that look scary on efforts to identify and treat people mentally ill.

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Elections have consequences.

You don't want to go down that path as I can also pull up the chart showing number of guns in the US vs. gun homicide rate since the 1990s when gun numbers jumped and homicides fell.

I will say the more likely culprit in the US gun violence would be the gangs and our strict prohibition against people being able to put substances into their body. Legalize drugs and US murder rates plunge overnight. It's almost as if this country learned nothing from 1920s prohibition

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

No issue there for me.

But this is getting to the real issue.

There is no perfect solution. Either we're going to limit it too much (and some people might not be able to get guns) or we dont limit it enough (and more people get shot)


The right to own a gun is more important than other people's lives to many.

I know. I want to change the penalties and make it so you can't plea down on any gun related charge. You get the full term.

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Are you saying that more guns doesn't lead to more shooting?

Good question. Let's plot guns vs. shootings over time. You got the data?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Not trying to be a jerk but yeah some people like their constitutional right a lot. They may not "be coming for your guns" soon or ever but an inch leads to a mile. As I mentioned this is true for other debates.

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Elections have consequences.

Give me liberty or give me death. - Patrick Henry

Once again, we could probably stop all crime and terrorism if we had CCTV cameras on every street corner and microphones recording happenings in every home, but once again, we value our 4th amendment rights, even if curtailing surveillance means crime will occur undetected. That's an extreme example, but it highlights that we have a balance of liberty and safety. I can point to the quotation of another founding father, Benjamin Franklin

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Yes, some people like it more than they like other people's ability to breathe. We agree.

It has been plotted

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

It's the state that denies the ability of people to breathe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

how about shoes purchased versus aggregate miles walked?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I wonder what Ben Franklin would say about mass shootings?

That is homicides, not shootings.

Advancements in medicine are to thank for that.

Im with you there.

Fact remains that some people value their 2nd amendment right over the lives of others.

Well they did have this one mass shooting in Boston by British soldiers. It's probably one of the reason he and the forefathers figured people should be armed to repel a government's abuses.

Wince we are on the subject of Founding Fathers, let me ask, what was the British objective as they marched upon Concord?

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

We all surrender some amount of security for basic freedoms and that's a trade I will make every day. That is a decision that was made when our Founding Fathers set up a system that was designed to limit the powers of government, which could pretty much end most crime today if they set up Soviet style surveillance and could arrest anyone for suspicion of crime. Our founders instead wisely opted to surrender some safety so that we could maintain liberty. I strongly support that notion.

We could live in a crime free 1984 if we just surrendered our liberties, but I'm not willing to do that. I value my liberties more than life itself.

(also note the distinction between using a word like "liberty" instead of "freedom", the distinction is important)

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

seems like it is on its way

Russia's homicide rate is much worse than ours. Without guns!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I understand but it seems pretty extreme to me.

I dont think limiting gun sales or even a registry is 1984ish.

Snowden was the canary in the coal mine. I sadly fear we have ignored him, especially since there are surveillance hawks on both side from POTUS on the right to senile old Feinstein on the left.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Having background checks to prevent those who are mentally ill or those who have been criminally prosecuted with full due process from owning guns, fine.

However, having a registry in my mind is certainly 1984ish as you're providing a roadmap for a government to seize guns at a later date. A gun registry is a very big red line I would never want to see crossed.

You can laugh at how I question government, but I'd say we have a very long track record proving that we probably should not trust 3 letter agencies. I'm not even someone who peddles conspiracies, I simply point to the verifiable things they have done in areas of surveillance and curtailing of basic rights.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Why?

That seems like paranoia more than anything else. You have to register your car. Register your guns.

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