I'm sorry, but "just following orders" doesn't jive as a defense in my book. The Federal agents carrying out that illegal raid and murder were no different than others who have carried out atrocities on behalf of their government. They have the power to refuse an order and if it costs them their job, then they are probably better off moving on to something they can morally live with.

If you want the simple answer, yes it is morally justifiable for those who are carrying out atrocities as part of their job to be killed by those who are defending themselves. Look no further than my support of that man in Texas who killed a sheriff performing an illegal no knock warrant. The court system agreed with that man as well.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Dismissive doesn't really fit there. Not sure what you mean.

The difference is that religion isn't a tangible product. Now, if they want to get tax deductible donations to their faith, then they can and do have to let the government know. Now, you'll probably say "Should they have to register on a list to own a bible?" and then answer is "no, because there isn't a safety case to be made for that". Now, if Christians required the ownership of a dangerous weapon then the answer would be yes but it's already getting pretty absurd.

Just like our "liberty" is not violated by having a social security card from birth, a gun registry is not a violation of any Constitutional right.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It wouldn't be an infringement but I wouldn't expect people to register their faith, just like I wouldn't expect someone to register their sexual preference.

A gun is a recreational object. Like a vehicle.

Register it.

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Maybe dismissive isn't the right word but if we were discussing voting rights, free speech, religion or abortion you wouldn't just say that's fine without regard to the people losing something.

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Elections have consequences.

Id be fine with some and upset with others as would everyone.

Not everything fits into the "yea but on the other side _____"

There are MANY who would say that the men who wrote that you have the 'right to bear arms' carried out atrocities as well.


An old gun can be rendered useless. It can be made to be not fireable. Then you take the heirloom and put it into a nice frame and hang it on the wall or whatever.

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The end goal of the LBGT movement is pedophilia. Mark it down.

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It would be outright denial of history to say that this government did not carry out atrocities. Especially in the case of the slaves and the Indians. I would however once again point out they could only do so as they had the arms and their victims did not.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I'm not sure I'd be ok rendering an heirloom worthless by making it inoperable. That's a poor solution.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This is an false dilemma. Your ignorance assumes your position is the only correct one and that anyone that doesn't agree with you doesn't value the lives of others. Typical extreme left-wing nutjob response.

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Except a gun is property expressly protected by the Constitution, whereas a vehicle is not.

Also, can religion not be described as "recreational thought"? It serves no real purpose in the modern world, and can be used to do bad things. Register it, right?

I think it's obvious that the "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!" people want to take guns away from someone. So the next question is, are there special people who should retain their full Second Amendment rights?

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Freedom is our Strength.

Darkside

No, it's not. There are literally people that will tell you their right to own a gun is more important than other people's lives.

No hyperbole, nothing to do with my opinion. It's just a fact.

To rpbs point about valuing the 2nd amendment over the lives of others...
I do indeed value the 2nd amendment over the lives of others. And pretty much the whole constitution. I value it over my own life, as should anyone in this country protected by this document. Miilions have died protecting these rights. Hundreds of thousands died obtaining these rights. They are worth more than individual lives for without them individual lives have no liberty, no safety, no protection against the inevitable atrocities committed by a country with no limitations.
This document and the rights contained within are the reason we don't live in a place that's similar to north Korea or Syria or any other litany of god awful places with a merciless government run amok. It's why we don't have coups every 5 years. It's why we're here talking about this today. It is indeed the very identity of this country, and I believe in my heart that the United States is valued over any number of its citizens.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You just know that cocksucker has shot up a lot of condensers with freon.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Right, it is a fact: Constitutional protections are more important than the life of an individual or handful of individuals.

Do you think America has:

a. Too little gun violence;
b. The right amount of gun violence; or
c. Too much gun violence?

Tell Juiced. He thinks I made that up because I'm a left wing nut job.


At this point, I'd like to point out that my position is we have too many guns in general but everyone still has the right to get one. I just would like to see the illegal ones off the street.

Nutjob type stuff.

No guns for muslims.

Everyone else is cool.

Registering a gun is not infringing on your right to own a gun. No issue there.

Religion is a thought. I would prefer not to make people register thoughts. If you do, have at it.

Our right to vote is expressly protected by the Constitution. Yet we make people register to vote.

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Well, Im not sure you can technically call that a FACT. But it is a fact that many people subscribe to that theory.

Do me a favor though if you're gonna quote me quote me at least with a minimum of context instead of cutting my post off to make my point very different.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Probably. And that's why I get as frustrated with them as I do with the "WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING" people.

Doing something just to do it is stupid and pointless.

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Done.

Nope. I'm good without people having guns.

But it'll never happen. So it's just hope I'm not anywhere where a loon is shooting people.

We are a gun loving country. We're not giving up our guns so this stuff is going to continue to happen.

We can try and curb it with mental health care and stringent penalties on gun laws, though.

It has a chilling effect, which itself can be unconstitutional. Registration dissuades people (whether by cost of compliance, burden, fear, etc.) from exercising their right, which is an infringement on the right itself.

I did not say this.

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