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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:46 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

I dont think that was Rick's point. His point was winning with the Red Sox and Cubs isnt any harder. A lot of people, (I've done it) probably give him more credit for ending droughts.

Maybe I misinterpreted this.
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

Well yea, when you remove the topic sentence it changes the argument.


It began with

I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo.

Doesn't change the argument. I quoted the whole supporting argument after the sentence. He's saying ending the losing streaks were easier because of the size of the market.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

It was always wrong.

They stopped winning when they started spending like crazy in the 2000s

2009 title was bought. (But that just means they signed the right guys)

The 4 in the late 90s were built around guys who were drafted. Jeter, Williams, Petite, Posada and Rivera

I think Rick's original point is still correct. It's easier to win in large markets. Theo's not winning a World Series in San Diego.


You have no idea if that's true, and you could say it about every GM who has won in a big market.

:lol:

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

It was always wrong.

They stopped winning when they started spending like crazy in the 2000s

2009 title was bought. (But that just means they signed the right guys)

The 4 in the late 90s were built around guys who were drafted. Jeter, Williams, Petite, Posada and Rivera

I think Rick's original point is still correct. It's easier to win in large markets. Theo's not winning a World Series in San Diego.


You have no idea if that's true, and you could say it about every GM who has won in a big market.

:lol:


Yes?

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.
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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:49 pm 
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No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:49 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.


Yeah, this is pretty much true.

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Brick
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:50 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.
Going by the factual opinion of Kenny > Beane then all that does is raise Kenny even further.

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:50 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.


Yeah, this is pretty much true.

It is not :lol:

To help you and rpb out, beane never won a title. He never won jack shit.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:52 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.


Yeah, this is pretty much true.

It is not :lol:

To help you and rpb out, beane never won a title. He never won jack shit.

But you quoted and championed Rick's post mentioning Beane

You two jerkwads have cornered yourselves. Either Maddon and Beane are awesome or Theo is.
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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.
Going by the factual opinion of Kenny > Beane then all that does is raise Kenny even further.


Why is he better?

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Brick
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Any more pretzel logic from rpb and I'll accuse Caller Bob of being his mult.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:54 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:54 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.


Yeah, this is pretty much true.

It is not :lol:

To help you and rpb out, beane never won a title. He never won jack shit.

But you quoted and championed Rick's post mentioning Beane

You two jerkwads have cornered yourselves. Either Maddon and Beane are awesome or Theo is.

Theo is. Who still denies this?

I think you misread some of this thread. It's alright.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:54 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

FF has twisted your argument into a celebration of Billy Beane. I hope you guys can remain friends.


Yeah, this is pretty much true.

It is not :lol:

To help you and rpb out, beane never won a title. He never won jack shit.

But you quoted and championed Rick's post mentioning Beane

You two jerkwads have cornered yourselves. Either Maddon and Beane are awesome or Theo is.

Theo is. Who still denies this?

I think you misread some of this thread. It's alright.


dolphin

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.

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leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

It's pretty simple. Large markets are easier to win in than small markets. This is a fact. Theo will never win a World Series in San Diego is also a very solid limb to go out on. But of course, you still wanna argue it :lol:

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:57 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.

I'll take our title over your guesses on what "would have" happened.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

It's pretty simple. Large markets are easier to win in than small markets. This is a fact. Theo will never win a World Series in San Diego is also a very solid limb to go out on. But of course, you still wanna argue it :lol:


Ahahaha! You think I'm not going to notice when you change "Theo wouldn't have won" with "Theo will never win"? How dumb do you think I am?

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Brick
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:59 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:00 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

It's pretty simple. Large markets are easier to win in than small markets. This is a fact. Theo will never win a World Series in San Diego is also a very solid limb to go out on. But of course, you still wanna argue it :lol:


Ahahaha! You think I'm not going to notice when you change "Theo wouldn't have won" with "Theo will never win"? How dumb do you think I am?

Read my post again. Quote it if you need to :D

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.


You’re gonna have to hash it out with FF. He’s the Beane lover.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

It's pretty simple. Large markets are easier to win in than small markets. This is a fact.

In this century....Florida, SF, Anaheim, Kansas City, Bridgeport, and St Louis have won half the Championships.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:03 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

It's pretty simple. Large markets are easier to win in than small markets. This is a fact.

In this century....Florida, SF, Anaheim, Kansas City, Bridgeport, and St Louis have won half the Championships.

I agree.

Now are you willing to go the next step and say it's not easier to win in a large market? I would like to hear that argument.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.

To be serious for a second, if you really do believe the theory that it's much easier to win with high payrolls than you pretty much have to credit Beane and Maddon for the amount of success (even without winning a title) they had in small markets.
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.

To be serious for a second, if you really do believe the theory that it's much easier to win with high payrolls than you pretty much have to credit Beane and Maddon for the amount of success (even without winning a title) they had in small markets.

It's not about discrediting Beane. The original argument years ago was Beane > Kenny. That's a hard sell with no WS on Beane's resume.

The Subdivision no longer has to discredit Maddon. Cubbie Nation dislikes him far more than we do if this board is any indication.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:05 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No, I stand by what I said. I just found that response funny.


How do you stand by the statement "Theo never would have won in a small market" when there are GM's who have done so, and he is regarded as one of the best of his time? It's something that no one could possibly know.

When you put it into context it sounds even weirder because it sounds like you're trying to discount what he's achieved by yelling "Yeah, but he couldn't do it in a small market!"

It's pretty simple. Large markets are easier to win in than small markets. This is a fact.

In this century....Florida, SF, Anaheim, Kansas City, Bridgeport, and St Louis have won half the Championships.

I agree.

Now are you willing to go the next step and say it's not easier to win in a large market? I would like to hear that argument.

Im glad you agree with the title history :P

It's like life. Money can cover up a lot of mistakes.

I dont think it's near what some people make it out to be. Some act like the Yankees or now Dodgers should win every year or that spending automatically = success.
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.

To be serious for a second, if you really do believe the theory that it's much easier to win with high payrolls than you pretty much have to credit Beane and Maddon for the amount of success (even without winning a title) they had in small markets.

It's not about discrediting Beane. The original argument years ago was Beane > Kenny. That's a hard sell with no WS on Beane's resume.

The Subdivision no longer has to discredit Maddon. Cubbie Nation dislikes him far more than we do if this board is any indication.

You should pull a pittmike and ask JORR, he thinks Beane is the best in the game I believe.


Kenny is more accomplished for sure.

If you ask me if they switched places what would happen, I think Beane would do better with the Sox and Williams would do worse with the A's based on the salary vs. wins.
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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:16 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You should pull a pittmike and ask JORR, he thinks Beane is the best in the game I believe.

Subdivision celebrates individual opinions. Cubbie Nation is the side that suffers from groupthink, I believe.

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Brick
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:25 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.

To be serious for a second, if you really do believe the theory that it's much easier to win with high payrolls than you pretty much have to credit Beane and Maddon for the amount of success (even without winning a title) they had in small markets.
This will ultimately devolve into the "Playoffs are mostly random" argument and we need to avoid that. That means all I'll say is that there are ways that small market teams can stay relatively competitive against the big market teams but ultimately struggle to compete well when it matters.

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:42 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Anyway, the point is Billy Beane probably would have done more than just catch lightning in a bottle with the Sox.
He couldn't even win with a franchise with a huge championship pedigree. He wouldn't have won a title that ended the longest city sport title drought in history.


You’re gonna have to hash it out with FF. He’s the Beane lover.

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