Well, I don't believe either one of them is an historian by trade. In any case, citing some nebulous and unspecified group of "practicing historians" is far more intellectually dishonest than anything I've ever heard from Hanson or Diamond. Also, I would suggest the use of quotation marks around "Western Civilization" may be evidence of your own political agenda.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There is no fixing this. This is our new reality. Trump was too late.

Do not go quietly into that long night

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I can agree with things both of you said, but one reason why this stuff is important is because it impedes learning. We need fewer blinders, not more. I think that is part of learning--removing the blinders, at least for a while. It's cool to see things from our point of view, but we have to learn why that pov exists and that there are other ones, and identity politics either blocks that or blocks my attempt (as a teacher) to connect.

And I am all for people criticizing each others' ideas and celebrating who they are, no doubt. But so many young people are walling themselves off. I thought old people (folx) were supposed to do that, not the young. Anyway, we all keep forgetting that we could very well be wrong about a ton of shit. Not good for the culture. So that's what concerns me.

Also, leash is changing.

Poetry cleanses!

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Should have posted that in the "We've Lost all our heroes" thread.

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Don Tiny: I think I was talking about this with you or Curious Hair like a year ago, but I think it has already swung, considering how many people hate hate hate intellectuals or professors or even teachers.

Board Members 39 or Older: Remember that one commercial advertising country's greatest hits in which there was a song called "We Were Swingin'"? Did they mean something else by "swinging," or did they mean the sort of gross activity? Weird commercial to put on at 4 pm during shows for kids. At least Freedom Rock was funny and had a few good tunes. Whenever I see the word swing, I think of this.

Replace "country" with Paul Revere and the Raiders, and this reads like a jimmypasta monologue.

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He's also become another culture-war grifter who makes videos lecturing young men to clean their rooms and self-actualize or something. He sounds like Kermit.

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Oh, thanks. I couldn't get the video to play.

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A little cleanliness never hurt anyone. Well except for ethnic cleansing.

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'
That's a reasonable take. It has to be hard trying to educate this generation without losing your shit.

I don't even know what I would say/do if I had some 15 year old snot nosed motherfucker tell me to "check my privilege", especially if the issue being discussed doesn't really have a racial/gender aspect to it.

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Yet they both see fit to propose grand theories of history.

Then I'm inclined to say you're extremely credulous, just as you are with Harris. See here and here for layman overviews on problem with both of their works.


I would say being triggered by the use of quotation marks around a concept that by any reasonable measure is extremely poorly defined and discussed in popular media is far more indicative of an agenda.

Good to know the credible historians are hanging out on Reddit rather than Youtube.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The Peterson and Brophy work isn't even published anywhere, never mind peer-reviewed. Hard to describe that as a major contribution to academic psychology. Additionally, it's hard to see from the overview how it's any different from the many psych studies which also propose simplified personality types based on any number of run-of-the-mill content analyses and questionnaires (methods which were rightly excoriated for being part of the replication crisis in the field).

Maps of Meaning was a deservedly obscure derivative academic work until Peterson spiked in popularity in the last few years by telling the right exactly what it wanted to hear about the horrors of cultural Marxism.

A helluva lot more than kids on campus being idiots about free speech.

Given how frightened you are of the most unjust censorship occurring on universities, I can only assume you were even more outraged about the fates of people like Norman Finklestein for instance, right? I mean that's what I'd expect if this was definitely about a principled stance on free speech.

You want me to link you scholarly articles locked behind paywalls?

As opposed to Reddit? Probably.

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Aaron Swartz died so you wouldn't have to link to Reddit, which he was also responsible for.

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Great debate mate.

You know LTG gets shit on for his sources but at least he provides them along with a cogent argument.

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I in fact was outraged that he was silenced at DePaul. He dared to question the certain aspects of exploiting the Holocaust and was vilified for applying forensic research.

All censured speech is wrong. I don't have to agree with it but I can't shut it out.

Your just putting forward a lazy argument that I am only doing this because the person in question is fighting against pronouns for trannies. If this person was arguing for an independent state of Palestine I would have the same opinion.

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Back to the original topic, it seems the university is now apologizing. Obviously only because Shepard taped the meeting. And still they miss the point, talking about "safety" and "harm" befalling students. As if ideas are dangerous. The problem is much bigger and more widespread than this incident.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

People are free to be delusional, but I am not obligated to partake in that delusion.

_________________

I'm grateful she secretly recorded the meeting. Without the recording none of this gets exposed to the public and the scrutiny that brings.

Not apologizing for bad behavior is the MO of identity politics driven academia. Everything is explained away with "we were acting in the best interests of safety/awareness/sensitivity". No one admits anything is wrong with their behavior because the whole movement is at risk then.

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These conversations always remind me of this Triumph video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=378s&v=j556MWGVVqI

Even if partially scripted, it’s hilarious.

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You will conform.

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Elections have consequences.

I get Loyola campus safety alerts forwarded from my niece. At no point in time is the race of a suspect disclosed. The last suspect was described as being between 20-25 years old and being between 5'9" and 6 feet in height. Pretty much 1/5 of the Edgewater/Rogers park neighborhood.

A while back they went so far as to say "Suspect had a Jamaican accent", and I was shocked they didn't include a disclaimer pointing out white Jamaicans exist.

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This is literal thought policing by regressives.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Honestly, shit like this makes me smile when I see troves of liberal arts students leave college with 6 figures in debt and no ability to get a job outside of making drinks at a Starbucks whereas I instead went to college in order to learn a skill that has value in the marketplace.

Kind of changing subjects here, but has anyone noticed how none of the feminists screaming about the gender gap have STEM degrees?

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Here is Vice's headline on the subject:

"Jordan Peterson Is Causing Problems at Another University Now"

I will not link to the piece as I refuse to give the writer more hits. I guess I can take solace that the regressive author lives in a rat infested hellhole since Vice (owned by a liberal billionaire) doesn't pay its writers.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson