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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Using Fox’s resume to pretend he’s anything other than one of the very worst coaches in the league is a pretty bad idea.

Maybe they should hire Joe Gibbs. Hell of a resume!

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Larry is a huge nerd, i had no idea dipshit mulatto lingo.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Using Fox’s resume to pretend he’s anything other than one of the very worst coaches in the league is a pretty bad idea.

Maybe they should hire Joe Gibbs. Hell of a resume!




Denver fired him and won the SB the very next season.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:44 pm 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Using Fox’s resume to pretend he’s anything other than one of the very worst coaches in the league is a pretty bad idea.

Maybe they should hire Joe Gibbs. Hell of a resume!




Denver fired him and won the SB the very next season.

He made the SB with two different teams! Can’t possibly be his fault the Bears have lost every game they were favored in for his entire Chicago tenure so far :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:11 pm 
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A brief aside ... I thought KD was giving me a rough ride in the ol' moon ... upon further review, he was not ... entirely my bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
A brief aside ... I thought KD was giving me a rough ride in the ol' moon ... upon further review, he was not ... entirely my bad.


Don Tiny likes the gentle touch :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:50 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Pace gets one coach hire that's truly his own, but this shit can't go on longer than two more years before everyone from Ted on down needs to be flushed.
This is why as a GM you don't accept a job where you don't get to pick your coach. Now, you are in year 3, and you've been horrible at your job so far. You already got a coach fired. You have to go out and convince someone else "Hey, join up with me, and if we don't win in year 2 then I'm fired and you are working for a new GM or you are fired with me!". So now, coaches are going to choose any other place to coach and you are stuck with whatever coach has no other options and isn't willing to wait a year to see if someone else is interested.

If you were a betting man, the odds are incredibly high that Pace, if he keeps his job, is fired for poor performance in the next 2-3 years. His only real shot is if (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky saves him, and even that draft pick looks stupid because he unnecessarily gave up a ton of picks(you know, things that help rebuilding teams) to get him.

Even if you keep him, you aren't more likely to succeed. There is absolutely no reason to believe he has a higher chance of success than whoever else you would get to replace him. The best argument for him is "Well, maybe he's not bad and a coach with a much bigger resume may just be bad!" which is certainly true but also not exactly comforting to know that we are blaming the guy who has taken two other teams to the Super Bowl over the guy that built good running back depth in a passing league!

What are these “incredibly high odds” and are you willing to give them?

If (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky sucks(looking increasingly like the case) then of course he is fired. If Mitch can improve to just slightly below average, then it’s not gonna take much more than a new coach and playmaker WR to make this team a contender, which would mean he’s keeping his job more than two more years.

Don't want to root against the Bears for 3 years to be right.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Using Fox’s resume to pretend he’s anything other than one of the very worst coaches in the league is a pretty bad idea.

Maybe they should hire Joe Gibbs. Hell of a resume!

Intentionally not understanding the point I see.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:58 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Using Fox’s resume to pretend he’s anything other than one of the very worst coaches in the league is a pretty bad idea.

Maybe they should hire Joe Gibbs. Hell of a resume!

Intentionally not understanding the point I see.

I understood the point. It was a bad one. It should be pretty clear to anyone paying even casual attention to this team that the coaching is a bigger problem than lack of talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:59 pm 
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I think both of those feed off of each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:06 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Using Fox’s resume to pretend he’s anything other than one of the very worst coaches in the league is a pretty bad idea.

Maybe they should hire Joe Gibbs. Hell of a resume!

Intentionally not understanding the point I see.

I understood the point. It was a bad one. It should be pretty clear to anyone paying even casual attention to this team that the coaching is a bigger problem than lack of talent.

Fox is probably bad but his whole career he's been able to prove he is at a minimum a competent coach. Pace has never shown anything but an ability to pick running backs. I don't have any reason to think Pace isn't equally bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:09 pm 
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You think Fox has shown at minimum, competency, during his Chicago tenure? Are you being serious?

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
You think Fox has shown at minimum, competency, during his Chicago tenure? Are you being serious?

It doesn't seem like it but keep in mind here we are forgiving Pace for the same terrible three year stretch. My opinion is that both are bad. I don't see why you put it all on Fox unless you are a Packers fan who wants the Bears to waste another 3 years.

What makes you think Pace isn't bad?

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
You think Fox has shown at minimum, competency, during his Chicago tenure? Are you being serious?

It doesn't seem like it but keep in mind here we are forgiving Pace for the same terrible three year stretch. My opinion is that both are bad. I don't see why you put it all on Fox unless you are a Packers fan who wants the Bears to waste another 3 years.

What makes you think Pace isn't bad?

Basically I think Fox is so bad that it’s impossible to fairly evaluate the talent level until there’s an actual nfl coach coaching that talent. See the Rams and Jaguars last year and this year for other examples of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Christ. FavreFan is right.







Damnit.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
You think Fox has shown at minimum, competency, during his Chicago tenure? Are you being serious?

It doesn't seem like it but keep in mind here we are forgiving Pace for the same terrible three year stretch. My opinion is that both are bad. I don't see why you put it all on Fox unless you are a Packers fan who wants the Bears to waste another 3 years.

What makes you think Pace isn't bad?

Basically I think Fox is so bad that it’s impossible to fairly evaluate the talent level until there’s an actual nfl coach coaching that talent. See the Rams and Jaguars last year and this year for other examples of this.
Fox seems bad but the point is that he's a veteran NFL coach that with even passable talent should be better than this.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
You think Fox has shown at minimum, competency, during his Chicago tenure? Are you being serious?

It doesn't seem like it but keep in mind here we are forgiving Pace for the same terrible three year stretch. My opinion is that both are bad. I don't see why you put it all on Fox unless you are a Packers fan who wants the Bears to waste another 3 years.

What makes you think Pace isn't bad?

Basically I think Fox is so bad that it’s impossible to fairly evaluate the talent level until there’s an actual nfl coach coaching that talent. See the Rams and Jaguars last year and this year for other examples of this.
Fox seems bad but the point is that he's a veteran NFL coach that with even passable talent should be better than this.

The same could be said of Fisher last year. That's why I say its bad to just go off resumes and assume any coach that had previous success is still a good coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:07 pm 
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[quote="FavreFan"The same could be said of Fisher last year. That's why I say its bad to just go off resumes and assume any coach that had previous success is still a good coach.[/quote]Except I never said you should go just off resumes.

However, when one guy has been to two Super Bowls, and the other guy has built running back depth in a passing league, I'm concerned that the guy with two Super Bowls is not the only problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:11 pm 
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See, this is what I'm talking about. Are you gonna try to claim you aren't just going off resumes in this post? I guess I'll just keep saying they should hire Joe Gibbs if you think past super bowl appearances are the only thing that is worth mentioning in regards to a coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:17 pm 
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I'll give Fox credit for going to the SB with the Panthers. He didn't have a HOF QB and he almost won that game.

I don't give him credit for the Broncos SB loss. Peyton Manning was the coach of that team. Just like he was when he won with the Colts. So Dungey gets no credit either.


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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
I'll give Fox credit for going to the SB with the Panthers. He didn't have a HOF QB and he almost won that game.

I don't give him credit for the Broncos SB loss. Peyton Manning was the coach of that team. Just like he was when he won with the Colts. So Dungey gets no credit either.

Those Panthers teams were stacked with great players and/or All Pros.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:22 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Beardown wrote:
I'll give Fox credit for going to the SB with the Panthers. He didn't have a HOF QB and he almost won that game.

I don't give him credit for the Broncos SB loss. Peyton Manning was the coach of that team. Just like he was when he won with the Colts. So Dungey gets no credit either.

Those Panthers teams were stacked with great players and/or All Pros.


Yes. Of course. Every team that goes to a SB has great players and/or All Pros. Cuz, ya know, that's how you get to a Super Bowl.


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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:24 pm 
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That’s not true, at all. The 2010 Packers weren’t very good, they just rode a hot QB to a title.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:26 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
That’s not true, at all. The 2010 Packers weren’t very good, they just rode a hot QB to a title.


The all time greatest QB does make up for shit. Yes. But that defense had some good players.

But even if I grant you that argument, that's the exception to the rule. Most SB teams have 6-10 good to great players.


Last edited by Beardown on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:28 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That’s not true, at all. The 2010 Packers weren’t very good, they just rode a hot QB to a title.


The all time greatest QB does make up for shit. Yes. But that defense had some good players.

Your history is off. Brady never played for that Packer team.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:41 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
That’s not true, at all. The 2010 Packers weren’t very good, they just rode a hot QB to a title.

A lot of guys rode that hot quarterback in 2010.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:44 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
See, this is what I'm talking about. Are you gonna try to claim you aren't just going off resumes in this post? I guess I'll just keep saying they should hire Joe Gibbs if you think past super bowl appearances are the only thing that is worth mentioning in regards to a coach.
I think my point is pretty clear. We have two guys that have done a pretty bad job through three years. The one guy has proven he could go to the Super Bowl with two different teams. The other has proven he can build running back depth in a passing league.

I'm concerned in putting almost all the blame on the guy who has been to two Super Bowls and shrugging shoulders and saying "I don't know, maybe Pace is good, give him 3 more years to see".

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:48 pm 
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But Fox seemed like he was phoning it in from the day he got here. Whatever he's capable of as an NFL coach, I don't think he ever really chose to access it here.

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
See, this is what I'm talking about. Are you gonna try to claim you aren't just going off resumes in this post? I guess I'll just keep saying they should hire Joe Gibbs if you think past super bowl appearances are the only thing that is worth mentioning in regards to a coach.
I think my point is pretty clear. We have two guys that have done a pretty bad job through three years. The one guy has proven he could go to the Super Bowl with two different teams. The other has proven he can build running back depth in a passing league.

I'm concerned in putting almost all the blame on the guy who has been to two Super Bowls and shrugging shoulders and saying "I don't know, maybe Pace is good, give him 3 more years to see".

I don’t know that I would give him three more years, but he’s obviously done more than build RB depth(I honestly don’t even really know what this means)

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 Post subject: Re: Laurence Holmes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:04 pm 
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What has he done?

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