Bitcoin is old news. Litecoin is the wave of the future. Who else is buying in?!?

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Ask Jorr. He thinks crypto will end civilization as we know it.

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Elections have consequences.

https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

Pick a coin, any coin.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

He's just trying to get people to panic sell so he can scoop up all the cheap coinz

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My old man was a banker. His bank was closed on Wednesdays as banks traditionally were in those days, but he would often go in to do some stuff anyway. If he and I were going to a ballgame, we usually had to stop at his bank so he could do a few things in the morning. I remember being fascinated listening to him on the phone making a short-term- like 24 hours- loan to Citibank for millions of dollars. As a kid I pictured someone actually delivering cash in an armored car. I believe that eventually- and you're seeing the genesis of it right now- all banking transactions will be settled using blockchain technology. It's the proof department of the future.

Still, the beauty of cryptocurrencies is economic freedom from government. People pay lip service to a borderless world and the idea that "people everywhere just want to be free". Here's a real tool that can be used to facilitate such a thing. We'll find out what people really want. People have the power!

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Times are a changing for sure. I was just pulling your leg but nothing would surprise me between now and when you and I leave this world.

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Elections have consequences.

Up 18 points today. Time to get stupid.

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Back in the day I worked at a bank that was closed on Wednesdays, I just figured that it was because of golf. But it seems really obnoxious now.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Yeah, "banker's hours" weren't necessarily customer friendly, but they were traditional. And there is something to be said for the symbolism that was ever present in the old school banks like the ones on LaSalle Street. All the bankers dressed conservatively in suits and ties. The buildings looked like fortresses. Was this necessary? Obviously not. We now achieve the same results with sixteen year old girls dressed in polo shirts in buildings that look like a Rally's drive-thru.

But getting to a point where people would accept that was a process. The same fears apply to cryptocurrencies. It's natural to think that if you can't hold something in your hand it must not exist. It's really illogical to trust a bank's ledger with your money while refusing to trust the blockchain.

There are a lot of Really Smart Guys™ who simply don't understand cryptocurrency and seem to have no real desire to learn about it. I heard Alan Greenspan babbling like a fool about Bitcoin. Jamie Dimon famously spewed a lot of uneducated nonsense on stage. I have a lot of respect for Peter Schiff but he just can't get his head around cryptos. He repeatedly insists that they aren't currencies. He made a ridiculous comparison to him creating a virtual house online.

People talk about the volatility of Bitcoin while conveniently ignoring the fact that the U.S. Dollar has lost about 90% of its value in our lifetime. I think it's a lot more likely that the Dollar crashes than Bitcoin. What is the value of a fiat currency? The ability of a government to enforce the value at the point of a gun. The Dollar has held sway for what? Seventy years? That's a long time to be the top dog. Do you think America is waxing or waning?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The big concern for bitcoin and others is that the government will either ban it or create their own.

Too much power is ceded when you no longer control your own currency.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's obviously the case. Cryptocurrency has all the potential to end nations as we know them. China is already taking steps in that direction. The problem for these governments is that the only real way to shut down Bitcoin would be to take control of the Internet. The people aren't going to allow that. Hell, MANY are screaming about taking to the streets over something as innocuous as ending net neutrality.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Not really. You just ban transactions with non-approved currencies in the United States or involving the United States. Other countries follow suit and all of a sudden you have a bunch of money you can't spend anywhere besides North Korea.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

How do you do that practically? The U.S. certainly "bans" you hiding money in the Caymans or in a numbered Swiss account, but that doesn't stop anyone.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I know this is a strange answer but the answer is you just do it. They did it with the offshore gambling sites in a different way by getting the credit card companies to stop processing the payments.

You ban it, and retailers can't accept it or use it. You maybe even ban the banks from dealing with it. What good is money that you can't use? You can trade it with private people or you can probably buy stuff from the Swiss or Caymans but it's a hassle.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think that will work. It may if the government moved right now the way China is attempting to.
But I believe that would/will ultimately fail.

You understand the concept as you obviously just posted about the death of retail in that other thread. This is like file-sharing. Lars Ulrich may stomp his feet like a child and demand payment. He may even get the U.S. government to support his position and bring charges against a few teenagers. But that cannot change the fact that music is now free.

The only way to really wreck a crypto would be to destroy confidence in it. I suppose a government theoretically has the ability to accumulate enough hashing power to wreak havoc on the blockchain, but it would be very difficult to do and people would see it coming a mile away.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If it is illegal to spend and accept in the United States what exactly are you buying? It would be like me trying to spend North Korean currency.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

All transactions are anonymous. Are you saying that the U.S. government would attempt to bully citizens into not using the currency they have accumulated? I can believe they may make such an attempt. I question how effective that would be. I suspect as effective as the law against me playing the Metallica file that I am listening to in my headphones right now.

Just like listening to Greenspan and Schiff babble, I don't think the people in power really realize the big picture potential here, or they undoubtedly would be trying to shut Bitcoin down immediately rather than sanctioning it- at least tacitly- through trading on exchanges. If a government is going to kill cryptos, it better take action now. And frankly, I think it's too late already.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Let me put it this way.

I want to shop for a Christmas gift, and I have X value of bitcoins. I go to Amazon, and try and spend them. The federal government has banned Amazon from accepting non-approved currencies. I cannot use my bitcoins. I say ok, I'll go to Target, but the same problem exists. I then say that instead I'll go to JORRstore.com, which as a US based business, cannot accept bitcoins either.

Now, maybe instead I say let's use credit cards, and then pay my credit card bill with bitcoins. The problem is that the credit card companies also can't accept payment in bitcoins.

So, now what do I do? I guess I need to convert them to American dollars, but why not just have American dollars at the start? Why go through all of this hassle for no real benefit to me?

So, what can I do with them? I can obviously give money to friends and non-businesses and the government can't really stop it. What else though? If it's money I can't spend then what good is it?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Maybe you'll use your Bitcoin in a Japanese or Russian store. Even the U.S. or Chinese governments can't stop the future. They can only slow it down a little.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

What benefit do I get from that though? Why am I going out of my way to shop at a Russian storefront when I can just use a credit card or paypal?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There are some inherent benefits of Bitcoin, most notably the fact that it is inflation proof. The buying power of your U.S. greenbacks may not always be so great in a global economy. What happens when- and I think it's "when" rather than "if"- the U.S. Dollar ceases to be the world's reserve currency?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This board is reading like a a dystopian young adult novel today....

Bitcoin will not be used as a currency (except amongst illegal businesses), but rather as a store of value, like gold (which is not really used to buy things either).

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I have a Confederate ten dollar bill that no one in this bitch-ass city will accept. It's ridic. I just want some Marlboro Lights!

I think Bitcoin has a lot of good things associated with it.

It doesn't mean I want to do my Christmas shopping from a Russian mob site and get the packages 2 weeks later or not at all because it got stuck in customs because it came from a supplier that accepts a non-approved currency simply because I may avoid the devaluing of the purchasing power.

Now, if we are talking about transferring my money to a Swiss bank account that stores it in bitcoin then maybe the inflation stuff matters more but as a purchasing agent, which is what money should be, the government can all but crush it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's clearly what's happening now. But I think Bitcoin- or whatever the prevailing crypto(s) is/are- will be used as an actual currency. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but that is the future of money.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

A cashless society, which is what the government wants, is what is driving bitcoin (to pre-empt government control). Getting rid of cash, in the government's eyes, solves a couple of problems. First, it enables the government to tax all the income from illegal business such as drug dealing or from people who get paid cash under the table (which in theory, is great...why should we pay higher taxes when some people don't report income?). Secondly, it gives government the power to more easily confiscate wealth (electronically).

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I wouldn't touch this stuff. It is my guess that someday we will look back and say the bitcoin et al mania was the surest sign of the bubble. Think about all the things that have value in this world and the reasons why they have value. Then try to figure out why bitcoin el al have value:

1) Real estate- scarce. Essential for housing and transport. Underlying value is generally determined by what type of cash flow can be earned from it- farming or rental income.
2) Gold- high value industrial application. Highly desirable throughout human history for jewelry. Limited supply. Underlying value is partly based off the cost to mine from the ground.
3) Currency- The value of the dollar is directly related to the cost to earn, namely your labor. We all understand the amount of effort it takes to earn a dollar, and it is the reason why you might spend $15 on a movie but not $150 or $20 per plate on dinner vs $200 per plate. It is very easy to link the cost of any good or service to the time it took you to acquire the necessary dollars.
4) Stock/bonds- The value of these is directly related to the cash flow of the underlying companies. In the case of stock, it is the earnings power of the company. In the case of bonds, it is the cash flow promised with eye towards the credit quality of the issuer.
5) Commodities- The value of these is directly related to the cost to mine or produce in combination with its real world use as a fuel, in industrial applications and or as a food source.

Now look at the risks of crypto currencies. How does any of us know the cost to mine? When will you ever actually see or touch one? What cash flows back up its underlying value? What is the productive use in broader society? What happens when governments decide that the main use of currencies is for illegal activities? Or what happens when hackers breach all the vaults?

I'll sit this one out. And if I "lose" by not owning any, oh well.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

That's a bad argument in favor of fiat currency. The fact that you feel fluent in what goods and services are worth in comparison to a U.S. Dollar isn't an argument for its value.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The energy needed to mine Bitcoin is hurting the planet.

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