It be like Jerry Sandusky opening a day care center, My family won't be partaking..but you n Ogie are free to not judge the messenger.

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Wrong.

I’ll help you out with the analogy.

It would be like daycares opening and then several years later Sandusky opens a daycare that becomes the most popular one. People would still say daycares are helpful but would be careful not to endorse Sandusky’s daycare.

The above analogy is what you are up against.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Don't trust science. Trust feelings.

Is that the basic summary of the argument against all gmos?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's Hawg's argument for everything.

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Do you think patents on seeds and animals serve humanity?

Also, are we ignoring the connection between GMO crops and the way pesticides are used or just looking at the consumption of the crop?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Organic crop farmers use twice as much pesticides per acre farmed as GMO farmers. See my link a few pages back from Scientific American for reference on this fact. That is because organic crops are more at risk to pests than a GMO crop.

edit: here is the link again so you don't have to dig for it

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sc ... riculture/

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Yes, though the abhorrent way that Monsanto uses patents may not. Patents are designed to encourage and reward innovation. That isn't always how it works but the same concept behind product patents should work for seed patents.

I think we need to analyze our use of pesticides much more than the generic "GMO" label that is virtually meaningless anyways. I mean, hypothetically, let's say I "modified" a seed to grow apples 10% bigger. Does it matter if I did it through 10 years of genetic breeding or if I did it in a lab? Is one way more dangerous than the other?

Now, it's probably a good idea to question our entire pesticide usage in the food supply but as Ogie has pointed out, this would actually be far more concerning with organic products.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There's a lot of politics in that statement. It's not as cut and dried as that. GMO corn has built-in pesticides. Nobody is really sure about the long term implications. We're changing the food supply and affecting our water. This goes beyond whether simply consuming the crop is safe or whether the crop is indistinguishable from non-GMOs from a consumption standpoint.

The designation "organic" doesn't mean what people think it means either. And I'm not making a blanket statement against pesticides or ammonia-based fertilizer either. There are a lot of people on planet earth. We have to feed them. There are choices to be made. And they aren't much different than the choices to be made that get people called "climate change deniers".

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Better watch out JORR, any skepticism here will have you labelled anti science

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I'm still waiting for someone to debunk the NASEM study.

When the topic is scientific in nature, you need to bring data to the table if you want a seat at the discussion.

Once again the NASEM study is data driven and has results which are repeatable if the hypothesis is tested in any other lab.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

The original article makes the easily overlooked, but David Copperfield-style misdirection in that the whole argument relies upon these "prizes" given by extremely liberal back-slapping organizations that have HUGE political agendas, not at the least the "Nobel Prize", which, to me, has meant absolutely nothing since they shammed it up and gave it to Obama for doing absolutely nothing - basically as a down payment.

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I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

I finally got a chance to really read that and after getting through 2/3rd of the author's bashing of organic farming, he arrived at a conclusion that both are likely necessary and have their place.

But I'm wondering why you featured a 6-7 year old piece?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I only posted that one because it directly addressed pesticides.

You have completely ignored the NASEM study, which was published just last year.

http://nas-sites.org/ge-crops/

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Didn't ignore it, my phone keeps freezing when I try to open it. I'm not anti science, just anti my crappy phone

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Um, nope: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/ ... -interest/

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I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

oh yes Mother Jones, that great scientific publication.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Just an FYI, but after this thread, I don't ever want to hear some of the liberals on this board come and post about how "anti-science" the right is. The left needs to clean up its own act as well if it wants to be seen as pro-science.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Noted liberal Panther Pisla...

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You don't need a PhD to point out screaming conflicts of interest.

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I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

referring to others, but of course he cites uber liberal Mother Jones. I'm sure he would never cite them in any other argument which he may find himself in.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Logical fallacy here, find a source that contradicts the data. This was a laboratory experiment with controls and methods which can be repeated. If you come to a different result, you re-examine the hypothesis. However, no one performing an actual scientific study has come to a different result.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

My challenge to the anti-GMO crowd:

1: ask yourselves what question you want to answer via experiment
2: Do some background research (youtube videos and non-scientific journals are not research)
3: Construct your hypothesis
4: Test it via repeatable experimental methods with a control
5: Analyze your data, draw conclusions
6a: if hypothesis is proven true, report your results
6b: if your hypothesis is false, or only partially true, go back to step 3.

----

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

My question to you:

Are you, or is your Dad, employed by DelMonte?

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I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

nope, I'm just someone who is literate when it comes to matters of science.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I'm old enough to remember when healthy skepticism was actually part of science.

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I'm old enough to remember when you said the Eucharist is proven science.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It doesn't make his points wrong though. Which follows questioning the position of the quid pro quo of some of the academics in the area as I was referencing last night.

And fwiw, given that I'm fairly certain that most fresh produce I've eaten here in the dead of winter is likely genetically engineered, so I'm not really against them per se, just not fully trusting big Chem/Ag and their mouthpieces claiming an odd absolutist position.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

skepticism if your hypothesis is why you experiment. Once you experiment, you repeat it the experiment to see if the results are consistent.

Skepticism is fine, but if you are skeptical, then you run an experiment to test your hypothesis rooted in skepticism. Without data, you're just screaming nonsense.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Without years of experience with human consumption of GMO crops, you may be doing the same thing.

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It is in Lanciano, Italy and Argentina.

You can look for yourself whenever you wish.

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