I don't think rookies would think that way, though.

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Why does an executive of a company that started in the mail room not take a paycut to pay them more?

Players are greedy, as they should be, and don't care about the financial future of college kids coming to take their jobs.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It seems a waste of time to debate in long posts about the pros and cons of a likely impossibility. That’s why.

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Elections have consequences.

Well, then don't do it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This.

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Elections have consequences.

Don’t tell me what to do or don’t bossy pants.

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Elections have consequences.

Well, if it is the result of collective bargaining between the relevant union and ownership...where exactly is the problem with the draft? It's unfair to people who want to join that union which originally negotiated for the unfairness? You don't get to change the master contract of your local just because you don't like the entrance to the hall. Don't want to be subject to the draft? Go join another professional football union.

was my initial thought on this, but the idea still intrigued me enough to engage in debate on it

Something that is negotiated can be considered unfair especially when those doing the negotiation have no reason to want to fix it besides being sympathetic as they once went through it.

We'll use free agency as an example. I think we all agree that free agency is fair for players. It was not always allowed and those were negotiated contracts. Did is suddenly become fair the moment it became part of the contract? Now, keep in mind, the draft seems to exist because it always existed and therefore it isn't really negotiated.

You seem to be using the "It's how it is so how it is means it is the right way" type of argument.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They do the real hard work out there. Seriously you are nothing without marketing!

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When MLB free agency came about because of a negotiated-for process, it became the fair way to treat players. Before that, the fair way was to abide by the contracts the players readily signed with owners. You could try to make the argument that the players lacked the ability to bargain effectively, and as such their contracts should be reviewed heavily in their favor even to the point of being void or voidable, but outside of that, adhering to the contracts was the fair thing to do.

So this is just an argument that whatever is the current way we do things is the fair way to do things.

I mean, no one is arguing that Josh Rosen should sign a contract with the Giants and ignore the draft. The discussion is on how fair it is that Rosen has little to no say in his organization for the next 4 or so years.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's well known that Goff, "Da Brotha" doesn't like gays. He gets a pass on his bigotry from all the liberals at the station because he is black.

Rosen has all the say in the world as to whether he declares for the NFL draft and tries to join the requisite union. The fairness of the process by which the union has negotiated for people to enter the union itself is wholly irrelevant. If Rosen doesn't like this particular thing the union does or would require him to be subjected to, he is completely and totally free to not join that union. What could be more fair than that?

Well, that takes us to the antitrust exemption, along with monopoly issues in regards to professional football. Since we are discussing "fairness" we can flat out say that there is no other reasonable option than to join the union and accept what was negotiated in the previous agreement. Therefore, your option for not wanting to play for the Browns, seems to be to not play in the only major pro football league in the country. Remember, this is simply about if it is fair for him. If you think it's fair to expect him to not play football because of it then I strongly disagree.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I thought it was because he's a bottle service on the rooftop type guy? you gotta be pretty /"liberal" to make it with that crowd AFAIK

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It's unfair to people who aren't members of the union yet. It's fine once you have your money.

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Rosen has all the tools at his disposal to assess the risk of what he personally feels are sub-optimal working environments given his personal tastes. Nobody is hiding anything from him, he is going into this process with all the information he needs to make an informed decision about whether to subject himself to a scheme that might result in him playing football in Cleveland. You seem to want more than that, though. You want him to be able to have all this information, and then unilaterally make the decision that he feels is best for him regardless of the rights granted to other parties in the NFL via the CBA. That doesn't sound too fair, to me.

Yeah, it's well-known that The Community is not widely accepting of gay black men, but Jason seems to take his revulsion to another level.

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Yeah, and I don't get influence on the testing credentials of Local 150. I either have to abide by them or I'm not in the union. Unfair!

And even if I'm not in the union, I have to pay the union if I want to use their established hiring hall to find work. Unfair!

That's the thing. The union members at the time of negotiation actually have a financial reason to give the future rookies a bad deal. That's why I found it funny they had to "negotiate" a lower rookie pay scale. I can only imagine how hard it was to sell the players on the idea that they would get more money, and the rookies would get less money. Unless you had a brother who was going to be a high draft pick in the draft in the few years why would you care?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There was no response to my post there. The NFL has a monopoly on professional football. There is no other option for him than to join the NFL or to not play professional football in this country. There can still be something unfair about a choice you ultimately make. I can give you many examples of decisions we make that involve unfairness. Your ultimate point is that it is how things are so it can't be considered unfair. Is that correct? Earlier today, you seemed to indicate it was unfair that RichRod got fired because of sexual harassment allegations. Well, that's how it works in 2018. You get accused, and there is reason to believe it's true, you get fired. Fair? He knew what the rules were when he signed his negotiated contract.

It seems like if we take your thoughts in this thread to it's logical conclusion, that NOTHING about the NFL and how they operate is unfair because that is how it is and it was negotiated. Is this correct?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Whatever your objections are to sports drafts, framing them as "anti-American" is fallacious, especially coming from nominal liberals like Dan and Jason. Unabated free-market capitalism is terrible for lots of people, which is why America doesn't really have it (though not for the Republicans' lack of trying). Setting a baseline of fair competition doesn't have to be anti-American. Sounds like jingoistic populist pandering to me, Senor.

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No.

Even with the draft most leagues are still unbalanced. I would be shocked if it could be much worse. Especially in the NBA.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

So what is unfair for players in the NFL?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

One off the top of my head? Collectively bargaining for the Commissioner to set the standard of evidence in player disciplinary investigations, the Commissioner setting the standard as per his collectively-bargained powers, then abandoning that standard.

This can be applied to almost any thought from an outsider to anything.

Yeah, and?

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Elections have consequences.

So leave the union then!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!