I'm not being extreme. It's extreme to think that college experience doesn't mean much of anything when you go to the NFL.

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We'll see.

I think Philbin was a great hire by the Pack.

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You have an odd definition of extreme.

I’m just taking a couple decades of data and suggesting a correlation.

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I could say the same thing about offensive coaches with 6 games of playcalling experience and suggest a correlation too but you thought I was wrong to even bring it up.

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Go ahead and try. I don't think you can.

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Well, you picked a few notable examples of failures from college to NFL. I can name plenty of successful NFL coaches who had extensive college experience too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don’t think you want to get into a contest of naming failures vs successes, and then comparing that ratio to hiring someone with previous nfl experience.

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Sure I do. Remember, the idea here is that coaches aren't likely to be successful as coordinators based on college experience. I've already found a lot of Super Bowl winning coaches who had a good amount of college experience.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Like being QB coach for Boise State?

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Also, having a good amount of college experience would irrelevant if they also had prior NFL experience. You would need to be looking for coordinators with no prior NFL experience.

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He is the exception and was able to learn as a #3-4 going into the season.

The Bears need a WR to be #1ish from day 1 (not sure true #1 is there).

I think the best place to find their receiver is FA. I think the undervalued guy in FA is Donte Moncrief but I think they can afford him and a bigger name.

Also, I think they are going to be running this offense through the TE position. I expect a big jump for Shaheen. I also expect a big one from Daniel Brown.

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There's a soph TE at Notre Dame named Cole Kmet who may be on the radar now that Hiestad is on staff -- obviously that's a long ways away...

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Allen Robinson

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If that was all he had then it would be different.

I'm fine with that. I won't count being a grad assistant or if they were just there for a year or so

Pete Carroll: 6 years as a coordinator before going to the NFL
John Harbaugh: 13 years as a coordinator before going to the NFL
Tom Coughlin: 9 years
Sean Payton: 6 years
Mike Tomlin: 4 years
Brian Billick: 10 years
Mike Shannahan: 8 years
Mike Holmgren: 4 years(with a bunch of high school years too)
Barry Switzer: 17 years(admittedly, he was handed the team)
George Seifert: 12 years
Jimmy Johnson: 21 years
Joe Gibbs: 8 years

That's a lot of Super Bowl coaches and it looks like it's well over half of the individual coaches who won a Super Bowl since Gibbs.

I'll stop there because the point I think is clear. One would assume that most of those people ended up good coordinators in the NFL after the college experience, which eventually got them to be the head coach and then win a title. Some went immediately to being a head coach like Jimmy Johnson, but that only helps my case as he should have been clueless coming from the mostly meaningless experience of college football.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh, I didn't realize we were arguing two different things.

Yeah, Helfrich might eventually be good.

I wouldn't expect good things this year.

I thought it was clear we were talking about guys coming from college in their first job in the NFL. John harbaugh was a 10 year coach in the NFL prior to taking over the Ravens. He's basically the opposite of what I was talking about.

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Harbaugh was likely a good coordinator which eventually got him the job.

I didn't say that Helfrich should have been the head coach, but I think his resume is better. Resume doesn't mean everything though as Fox proved.

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Your last point is clearly true, but I still fail to see how his resume is better. It's not. It's longer and less successful.

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and I doubt the Jags are going to tag him or make a big push to keep him with Hurns, Lee, and Westbrook developing. I'm not sure he is the type of burner that I think they are looking for but they MUST get that position up to a professional level.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
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Yeah, I'm not sure what Nagy wants. Obviously Landry is the better target if he's simply looking to replicate the KC offense. If he has his own plans in mind, I would think getting Robinson, and then Meredith back is a great start. If you can address OL in the 1st round and get a promising WR with speed in the 2nd/3rd/4th, I think you pretty much successfully overhauled your entire offense, depending on how well (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky can play next year.

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I wouldn't say less successful at least before he got the Bears head coaching job. I think most coordinators who don't even get to call plays would love to be the head coach at Oregon. Oregon fans are just insane from what Chip Kelly did there so he got fired for a bad year.

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But he failed as coach of Oregon. They slowly got worse with him and nosedived when he ran out of Kelly players. Nagy was successful as the Chiefs offensive coordinator. That's a big difference.

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Kelly also put them on probation which hurt them. He did have one horrible year and that was all it took but there were two elite years and one really good year.

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9-4 was not a really good year. It was their worst season in 8 years.

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Well, Kelly was maybe the second best coach in the country and he was dealing with probation which hurts recruiting in many ways(as in, you can't cheat as much).

Most major programs would take a 9-4 season and consider it really good. Even Oregon would outside of the Chip Kelly years.

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Oregon wasn't an elite program before Kelly. He took an elite program and returned them to ordinary. I don't know how that can be viewed as anything other than a failed tenure.

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Kelly put them on probation. When a program is put on probation it almost always has a decline especially if you think that there was a reason they got so good and they can't do quite as much of that.

If it's a failure to not be Chip Kelly as a college coach then pretty much every current coach is a failure besides Saban and Jimbo Fisher.

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It’s a failure to take a perennial 1 and 2 loss team and lose 12 games your last two seasons there. Regardless of suspensions or excuses.

But who knows, maybe he will be good!

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Helfrich is a shitty recruiter and bad college tyrant. Luckily that won't matter as an NFL offensive coordinator.

I'd argue Urban Meyer and his gang of criminals have been just as impressive as Jimbo Fisher's too.

I'm most cases that is happens when put on probation.

He had one bad year as I said.

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Well if he’s good it’s because of my guy Nagy so I’m covered either way.

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