It is currently Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:12 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: UFBT: Workplace Drama
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:48 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 17986
pizza_Place: 6 characters
What kind of workplace drama is currently taking place at your company?

I have a coworker who happens to be of a minority race.

His work performance has dropped considerably over the years, often to the point where everyone else on the team has to essentially do his job in order for goals to be achieved. Thankfully we have been able to meet these goals, which hides his ineptitude.

When approached by his manager regarding his performance, the coworker apparently threw out accusations of racism and being treated differently. This despite well-documented instances of his poor performance to which literally everyone on the team could speak.

In an effort to keep him happy, it appears he has become a protected asset (having attended an Ivy League school) and even recently received a job title promotion. Everyone knows it, yet nothing is being addressed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93620
Location: To the left of my post
This thread is going to go great...

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 16078
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:58 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.


Unpack this for me.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:02 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 17986
pizza_Place: 6 characters
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.


Unpack this for me.


Obviously one's race has no impact on their job performance. In the case of my coworker, playing that card was a power move and completely out-of-line. Yet he received the response he was looking for.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:09 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.


Unpack this for me.


Obviously one's race has no impact on their job performance. In the case of my coworker, playing that card was a power move and completely out-of-line. Yet he received the response he was looking for.


I've seen women flirt or worse to move ahead but I've never seen someone successfully use their race or gender to force a promotion.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:11 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 17986
pizza_Place: 6 characters
Nas wrote:

I've seen women flirt or worse to move ahead but I've never seen someone successfully use their race or gender to force a promotion.


Time will tell if it was truly successful, but in the short term it sure as shit seems that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:18 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've seen women flirt or worse to move ahead but I've never seen someone successfully use their race or gender to force a promotion.


Time will tell if it was truly successful, but in the short term it sure as shit seems that way.


Is my skin color starting to work to my benefit now? White America, I could be one of your kids...

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Nas wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.


Unpack this for me.


Obviously one's race has no impact on their job performance. In the case of my coworker, playing that card was a power move and completely out-of-line. Yet he received the response he was looking for.


I've seen women flirt or worse to move ahead but I've never seen someone successfully use their race or gender to force a promotion.


An older woman in our company uses her age and threatens to file a lawsuit every time she gets talked to about failing to do something.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:25 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.


Unpack this for me.


Obviously one's race has no impact on their job performance. In the case of my coworker, playing that card was a power move and completely out-of-line. Yet he received the response he was looking for.


I've seen women flirt or worse to move ahead but I've never seen someone successfully use their race or gender to force a promotion.


An older woman in our company uses her age and threatens to file a lawsuit every time she gets talked to about failing to do something.

That would piss me off

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:28 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102665
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93620
Location: To the left of my post
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


It's a legitimate problem. Underperforming workers or whatever that are "protected" because of the fear of being accused of prejudice if you take otherwise legitimate and fair action against them.

I think it's more noticeable with race but a lot of underperforming workers survive or even get promoted for a lot of reasons.

That's not to mention that others get promoted/hired because they are white or men even if others are better.

I'm not saying Ugie is even wrong in this case but it's a dangerous thing to start thinking that minorities in general get special treatment in the workplace when instead they simply get different treatment which has some positives and more negatives.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've seen women flirt or worse to move ahead but I've never seen someone successfully use their race or gender to force a promotion.


An older woman in our company uses her age and threatens to file a lawsuit every time she gets talked to about failing to do something.

That would piss me off


It has pissed off MANY people.

She was demoted last year for failing to be responsive to clients and being generally a miserable person. It lasted a week before she again claimed a "hostile work environment" and talked about a lawsuit. She's back in charge of her department.

The guy who was promoted before this ended up leaving because of it.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93620
Location: To the left of my post
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.

They are likely documenting everything. I've helped with a few things like that and it takes a while to have enough evidence to show at the end to make a lawsuit almost impossible.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:35 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 17986
pizza_Place: 6 characters
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...


I'm not saying Ugie is even wrong in this case but it's a dangerous thing to start thinking that minorities in general get special treatment in the workplace when instead they simply get different treatment which has some positives and more negatives.


Just to clarify, this goes beyond thinking special treatment occurred. It was explicitly mentioned to me that it had. There is no grey area in this instance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.

They are likely documenting everything. I've helped with a few things like that and it takes a while to have enough evidence to show at the end to make a lawsuit almost impossible.


Maybe.

This has been going on for at least 3 years.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 17986
pizza_Place: 6 characters
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.


This is the situation we are currently in as well. "Is the headache worth the effort?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93620
Location: To the left of my post
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.

They are likely documenting everything. I've helped with a few things like that and it takes a while to have enough evidence to show at the end to make a lawsuit almost impossible.


Maybe.

This has been going on for at least 3 years.

As soon as a person threatens a lawsuit the documentation should start immediately. Maybe your company is filled with idiots. All evidence I have indicates it.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.

They are likely documenting everything. I've helped with a few things like that and it takes a while to have enough evidence to show at the end to make a lawsuit almost impossible.


Maybe.

This has been going on for at least 3 years.

As soon as a person threatens a lawsuit the documentation should start immediately. Maybe your company is filled with idiots. All evidence I have indicates it.


Probably.



























Wait......

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm
Posts: 43865
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going to go great...

Tell me your 5 favorite racial jokes.

_________________
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:02 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102665
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Rick is correct. If documentation has not gone on for those three years, than the company has nobody to blame but themselves.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Rick is correct. If documentation has not gone on for those three years, than the company has nobody to blame but themselves.


No shit.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102665
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
I've been thru something similar too where somebody 'threatens' a hostile work environment over nothingness.

"Well how come so-and-so didn't clean the bathrooms?"
"Because I told you to clean them. So you can do what I tell you to do, or be insubordinate. Up to you."


Now there is a set cleaning schedule that nobody likes. Tough shit.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16927
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
the blatant nepotism at my firm, its like they don't even try and hide it.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 11512
pizza_Place: *
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peeps, Ugie, if your companies were serious and wanting to make moves on these people they could. The easiest thing to do would be to document if they are late to work or take a lunch that is even two minutes longer than they are authorized too. Odds are within a couple of weeks, they would have enough to terminate them for tardiness. If not, there are MANY other things companies can do in order to have documentation for possible termination.


Yeah we're a small company and the people in legal don't want the headache of dealing with her threats. So she's placated constantly.

It'll come to a head eventually when more people leave because of her.

They are likely documenting everything. I've helped with a few things like that and it takes a while to have enough evidence to show at the end to make a lawsuit almost impossible.


Maybe.

This has been going on for at least 3 years.


I have the same problem for 5 years and I work for a fortune 500 company. I have to constantly do his job and he always has an excuse for something when it wasn't done correctly (ugh i wasn't trained on that, oh i've been on vacation for too long, etc) Is late consistently and we work from home (how is that even possible)

There is no real reason to have him on my team and to take away from our bonus pools at year end but every year nothing is done about it. I've just started to call him out in public on his shit and refuse to hold back now, also I refuse to correct his mistakes. I guess we will see who gets fired first :lol:

_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
shakes wrote:
the blatant nepotism at my firm, its like they don't even try and hide it.


Or the tentacles of the law office led by a southwest sider that pushed an unqualified family member into an Appellate and then Supreme Court seat, or another member into a current run for Cook Co commissioner, or the idiot southwest side US congressman who brought his son back to town, then quit & left said idiot to be installed in DC, or the prior mayor who got there on family, continued the family practice of spreading it around to quietly be repaid in spades.

Or 43, then Jeb! on a national level. The thieving Paul family and Javanka now.

At least it was the cronies(& not family) of the long time puppet/Cook Co board pres who elevated his son into the chair for which he was ill prepared. Or JJJ openly trading on family influence, but weaving a bs facade of upward mobility and sophistication on the charmed electorate.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 11735
pizza_Place: Angelo's Pizza in Downers Grove
Regular Reader wrote:
shakes wrote:
the blatant nepotism at my firm, its like they don't even try and hide it.


Or the tentacles of the law office led by a southwest sider that pushed an unqualified family member into an Appellate and then Supreme Court seat, or another member into a current run for Cook Co commissioner, or the idiot southwest side US congressman who brought his son back to town, then quit & left said idiot to be installed in DC, or the prior mayor who got there on family, continued the family practice of spreading it around to quietly be repaid in spades.

Or 43, then Jeb! on a national level. The thieving Paul family and Javanka now.

At least it was the cronies(& not family) of the long time puppet/Cook Co board pres who elevated his son into the chair for which he was ill prepared. Or JJJ openly trading on family influence, but weaving a bs facade of upward mobility and sophistication on the charmed electorate.


What about Hillary?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
shakes wrote:
the blatant nepotism at my firm, its like they don't even try and hide it.


Or the tentacles of the law office led by a southwest sider that pushed an unqualified family member into an Appellate and then Supreme Court seat, or another member into a current run for Cook Co commissioner, or the idiot southwest side US congressman who brought his son back to town, then quit & left said idiot to be installed in DC, or the prior mayor who got there on family, continued the family practice of spreading it around to quietly be repaid in spades.

Or 43, then Jeb! on a national level. The thieving Paul family and Javanka now.

At least it was the cronies(& not family) of the long time puppet/Cook Co board pres who elevated his son into the chair for which he was ill prepared. Or JJJ openly trading on family influence, but weaving a bs facade of upward mobility and sophistication on the charmed electorate.


What about Hillary?


She's never won a race in which I voted for her, so she doesn't count in my book. :lol:

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
Regular Reader wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
shakes wrote:
the blatant nepotism at my firm, its like they don't even try and hide it.


Or the tentacles of the law office led by a southwest sider that pushed an unqualified family member into an Appellate and then Supreme Court seat, or another member into a current run for Cook Co commissioner, or the idiot southwest side US congressman who brought his son back to town, then quit & left said idiot to be installed in DC, or the prior mayor who got there on family, continued the family practice of spreading it around to quietly be repaid in spades.

Or 43, then Jeb! on a national level. The thieving Paul family and Javanka now.

At least it was the cronies(& not family) of the long time puppet/Cook Co board pres who elevated his son into the chair for which he was ill prepared. Or JJJ openly trading on family influence, but weaving a bs facade of upward mobility and sophistication on the charmed electorate.


What about Hillary?


She's never won a race in which I voted for her, so she doesn't count in my book. :lol:


:lol: You're bad luck.

Hers is a tad bit different in that she was elected Senator of New York. She wasn't appointed. Obviously she won on Name recognition but she wouldn't be the first pol to do that.


She also was intricately involved in different aspects of Bill Clinton's governorship and presidency. She was as involved for better or worse than any of his chief advisors. In many respects she was his chief advisor. She also helped with policy. Again rightly or wrongly depending on how we look at it.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group