Do you think Bob's link was bad?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What do you mean by "bad"?

Lacking in fact? There are many studies about CTE and football. Anyone denying that is the one lacking in fact. That's why I used the vaccine analogy.

The studies are coming out all the time pointing to football being bad for your brain. If you want to argue it isn't then go ahead but I'm not playing the "well maybe it isn't?" game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The argument made by the author is not one you agree with.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wrong. If Parents interpret the data and feel it's too dangerous...I understand if they don't want to let their kids play. But it's a PARENTAL decision

I agree with the author that the science on long term effects of football on the brain leaves much to be desired if we wish to know the specific danger of playing football for an extended period of time, and I also agree that we need a lot more research done and absolutely must understand how serious are the shortcomings of extrapolations from a sample with glaring self-selection issues.

I also agree that media outlets are disingenuously downplaying or outright ignoring respectable science that runs counter to a presupposed narrative, and that is not helpful in our quest for better understanding.

To the best of my knowledge I would say getting hit in the head is bad. I would also say it’s probably worse on a younger developing brain. That is based on logic though and not any studies as I haven’t read any.

The CTE stuff I have read is troubling and seems very convincing. I am leaning toward the side of not being sure what it really means. Studying brains of those that have had problems and committed suicide is not going to give you correct results. How do we explain the hundreds of thousands more players that had no problems at all?

My hope would be they have a test someday to be able to identify the problem live and effectively.

In the end though like many other sports do we not trust parents enough to love their kids enough to decide what is best?

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Elections have consequences.

So what was the point of that article?

I get the stance that parents should let their kids damage their brains by playing football. I may disagree for those who clearly can't consent but I get it.

Your article went beyond that to doubt the science behind the idea that football is dangerous for the brain.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So, given what we know right now, do you think football is dangerous for a brain, whether adult or child?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, we don't trust parents to not have their kids working at the age of 12, or drinking alcohol at the age of 12, or smoking at the age of 12, or dropping out of school at the age of 12, or driving at the age of 12, or entering into contracts at the age of 12, and many other things.

There really are two discussions here.

1) Is football dangerous for the brain even compared to other sports?
2) Do parents have the right to subject their kids to dangerous activities at a time when the kids clearly cannot consent to such activity?

And yes, I know the 2nd question leads to "Should parents be allowed to let their kids walk down stairs!!!!!!??????" argument, but we determined the above mentioned activities weren't worth it so we clearly can decide that 12 year olds shouldn't play tackle football if we determine it dangerous enough to require consent to the damage it does.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think you are ignoring his larger point which he stated on the prior page.

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Given the totality of the research that has been done, I don't think the notion that tackle football increases the risk of long term brain structure or cognitive defects in children is supported by evidence based science to satisfy rational basis review of regulation of the sport by the government.

Rick, I follow what you are saying but I do not understand why football is the only target it seems. No kids should play sorts or even cheerlead. There is very real risks is all sports.

I had two girls playing varsity sports in addition to my son. It may seem counterintuitive but I have personally witnessed many more serious injuries and concussions in the girls sports. The most serious being a broken spine by a cheerleader off a pyramid.

I am not getting the protective nature so focused on only football. Btw in case if I didn’t mention I am fine with no tackle before 12. I think junior high and HS is fine.

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Elections have consequences.

Rick feels it is dangerous etc. you should know you won’t change his mind. Do the dance if you guys want.

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Elections have consequences.

Is football dangerous for the brain of adults based on evidence based science? It sounds as if your stance is "We don't know if it is dangerous for kids" so it's important to know if you think it's dangerous for adults.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are a treasure. A post agreeing with me on it being dangerous and then a post complaining that I won't change my mind that it is dangerous.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No if I recall the thread started about 12 years old. You point was 16,17,18 or something. Remember don’t tackle until senior year kids can get recruited and catch up. No biggie.

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Elections have consequences.

Why not let 12 year olds do it if it isn't dangerous?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Good evening bud. You are the treasure.

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Elections have consequences.

I think the science to date warrants a much closer look, but don't think there is enough to state definitively that a lifetime of football increases your risk of cognitive issues by some amount over non football players.

I predict that if it isn't definitive now that it will be eventually.

Now, I notice you are giving yourself a pretty big out here, but I'll ask anyways. Do you think we will ultimately determine that football increases your risk of cognitive issues? I will say I think it's highly improbable that all of these initial studies are wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Everything I've read points to CTE and the like probably being a cumulative effect of a lot of football, but I don't know if we will ever know whether there is a "linear no threshold relationship" or a "threshold relationship" for football like with radiation dosages. There are so many definitions of "bad" or "dangerous", and so many possible causes of the things in those definitions throughout a person's life, that we would need to study millions of football players (both those that only play up to high school and those that play some college, beyond college etc.) and non football players alike for their entire lives in order to determine precisely how much football is likely to increase your chances of "bad" things by some given amount.

That said, and talking about something like CTE and we assume its incidence is increased by football, I think it likely that there is some threshold of "safe" amount of football, not that any "dosage" of the game carries some chance you will end up with a higher likelihood of cognitive issues.

I asked you a simple question. Do you think we will ultimately determine that football increases your risk of cognitive issues? I don't know why you had to explain bad or dangerous and not simply answer that question.

I don't really understand what you are saying here. You can smoke one cigarette in your life and there is almost no chance of long term issues from it. I mean of course not every person who has ever put on a football helmet will have noticeable brain issues. Not every person who smokes meth has long term consequences either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You asked me a purposefully over simplified question, Rick, and I did my best to make use of it without oversimplification. "I think there is a safe dosage of football" is the best you're going to get out of me.

Well, there is a safe dosage of fentanyl too so it doesn't really mean much to state that.

Your argument seems to hinge on the fact that you believe the majority of the current research is flawed to the point where the conclusions are not even worth considering, and yet you won't even risk message board points by saying that you think that football will ultimately prove to not be an activity that increases your chances of cognitive issues even when compared to most other sports.

You seemingly won't even go as far to say that playing in the NFL increases your risk of cognitive issues so you are really dug in against the studies that have come out.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The studies say what they say, I don't think people were fudging numbers or anything. What I am against is the wild extrapolation that is undertaken by members of the media and people such as yourself.

Honestly, after reading about it seeing the news reports I come to the decision that it is just more of the war on men. Stripping away more of our inborn workings. We are a violent species,the men more so. Football is dangerous,but it is a way to let out the feral violent urges that men have in a controlled manner. If this is passed within years High School will be gone. Then college and like it or not football pays the bills. no one is going to fill those 100,000 seat stadiums watching the little snowflakes playing flag football.
If they where really concerned about head trauma and that shit they would be going after lacrosse and rugby.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Wild extrapolation?

The only extrapolation I've done is taking a guess that besides the studies on children that have been done that the studies on adults would also be valid enough to think that youth football may also be bad for brains.

I think football is bad for your brain. I think I'll be proven right.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Right, and extrapolating that CTE and the like in football players is more prevalent than in non football players ("football is bad for your brain") because of the study of an entirely self-selected sample of players is "wild extrpolation". You can't use studies of former NFL player's and extrapolate those findings to all NFL players, and most certainly not football players in general.

There are studies that cover a larger scope than NFL players.

So either say you don't think football is bad for your brain or it's pointless to continue with you on this.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!