Two night special on A&E. i chose this over the Paramount Network 6-part miniseries although I may give that a shot at some point. i've always been fascinated by this event, going back to late winter/early spring of 1993 when i followed it live, whatever covered it. I still remember when the building caught fire.

i haven't seen all of the special yet, but i saw most of the ending. it's amazing that the survivors not only stand by koresh, but wish they had died with their compatriots.

i like that the doc doesn't take sides. everyone interviewed believes their side of the story is the truth, and that it happened exactly the only way it could have.

this major fuck up by the government, coupled with ruby ridge, is exactly why i have never bought the "inside job" theory of 9/11. there is no way this keystone cop government could have executed something that elaborate and devastating so well. especially when they couldn't even negotiate correctly with a bunch of religious idiots.

not to mention, koresh *did* come through with his promise of interpreting the seven seals, and committed them to disks. had the ATF waited, and received the seals themselves, there probably could have been some kind of resolution that didn't involve all those deaths.

Thanks for mentioning this. Maybe I will find some time to watch this as well as anything on Ruby Ridge.

I need to be reminded of what these people were all about and why the government was so damn insisting on "getting" them. That of course led to the fuck ups.

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Elections have consequences.

What A Cook Out

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Alls I know is one of the seals was Kanye and A$AP Rocky wearing dresses #notinmyhiphop

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I remember how wrong I thought it was at the time that the FBI attacked this group, because they were Christians and that Koresh viewed himself as a prophet. The charges were completely phony, when compared to their right of freedom of religion. The religious views of the Branch Davidians might have been unorthodox, like the Seventh Day Adventists or Pentecostals, but that is no reason to have used armed force, when they weren't threatening anyone. What happened in Waco is really emblematic of the oppressive police regime we live under.

The reason the FBI went in was pretty much the same reason the Bush Administration gave for going into Iraq, that Koresh was committing crimes against his own people. Janet Reno has a special place in hell for what she did.

A lot of Boardwalk Empire guys in this thing.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You can argue about the tactics, and what Koresh did and said all you want.

They had illegal weapons in there. That is not a phony reason to have a warrant served or changes brought up.

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I mean I would prefer my federal law enforcement not to shoot people in the back when they are running away.

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See you in the cop threads!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree. I said you can argue about the tactics. A lot of this story is a 'he said he said'. Both sides could have and should have done some things differently.

The fact remains that there were weapons in the compound, and the Davidians were highly trained on them and ready to use them.

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PBS had a good American Experience last year on Ruby Ridge. Check it out if you haven't seen it.

Between Ruby Ridge and Waco, you can certainly understand why there was some understandable blow back in the 1990s. I cannot approve of what happened in that blow back, but I can certainly understand the why. There is no way to justify blowing up a building that included a day care, even if there was rightful anger at the agencies also housed in it.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Regardless of your thoughts on Waco, I don't think Ruby Ridge can be classified as anything other than straight up entrapment followed by murder at the hands of 3 letter agencies.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

my thoughts exactly.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Janet Reno absolutely deserves a place in hell. I think it is fair to point out that the abuses in the Justice Dept did not start with her though as Ruby Ridge (just as awful, just on a smaller scale) occurred under the 1st Bush administration.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Illegal weapons? So much for that right to bear arms!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

yet I'm told I'm paranoid when I say I stand against a gun registry as it would be used as a target map for future gun confiscations

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

We Ain't Coming Out

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

They were illegally modifying their guns to be automatic weapons.

Pussification of America

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

So, he was the Messiah?

Based on the word of a disgruntled ex-worshipper they killed and burned them all serving warrants. Cool.

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Elections have consequences.

so i gave the Paramount Channel miniseries a shot. i'm actually impressed, it's very well acted and well cast. taylor kitsch is outstanding as koresh, and they really make him a believable "leader".

rory culkin (looking like a young glenn danzig), melissa benoist (supergirl!), john leguizamo, and michael shannon rounding it out.

i'll definitely watch the rest. only have seen the first 2 episodes.

Hey man, how do we know it wasn't a typo and it's the right to bare arms? I've seen some pretty impressive gun shows / art museums in my day.

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Either him.or Marshall Applewhite, yeah!

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I was trying to think who he reminded me of. He may actually be shorter than Danzig.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, I caught the first 2 last night...agree completely.

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The one thing I don't like about it- and I'm sure Regular Reader and DannyB will agree- is that it impugns the honorable men and women of our tremendous federal law enforcement agencies.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It would be an interesting cross section to see the amount of people that think the police were wrong in this circumstance but defend cops for the other killings they do that don't involve people with semi-automatics who may have been making them automatics who are held up in a bunker stockpiling weapons.

I'm pretty sure that the cops here feared for their lives much more than a cop who comes upon a kid in a park playing with a toy.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I believe that it was written based on a book by Young, Short Glenn Danzig's character...which explains a lot, but, IIRC, even law enforcement has come out very critical over the way Ruby Ridge and Waco were handled...

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Awful fact, but this asshole murdered people at both Ruby Ridge and Waco. It's a damn shame someone hasn't served vigilante justice upon him as I would applaud it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

He was actually charged for his actions at Ruby Ridge but the Justice Department intervened to make the case go away.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson