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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:43 pm 
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You have to admit that it does look bad for Israel to turn refugees away like this. That being said, it's worth noting that Africans are not fleeing to Israel's highly successful neighbor of Jordan (something like one-fourth of Israel's GDP). There must have been something they liked about this (((apartheid ethnostate))), right?

And yeah, "Palestinian" Arabs were Syrians until it became politically advantageous to have a discrete nationality, we've been over this.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:45 pm 
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I don't see anyone here bitching about the creation of Pakistan. That land was part of India until partition after the British left. If only the Palestinians didn't have morons for leaders they could have their own country today.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
You have to admit that it does look bad for Israel to turn refugees away like this. That being said, it's worth noting that Africans are not fleeing to Israel's highly successful neighbor of Jordan (something like one-fourth of Israel's GDP). There must have been something they liked about this (((apartheid ethnostate))), right?

And yeah, "Palestinian" Arabs were Syrians until it became politically advantageous to have a discrete nationality, we've been over this.

The entire situation is a mess and I doubt you'll see any deportations soon. This will be held up in courts for years before anything actually happens. If you don't believe me, a similar order was given in 2012 and absolutely nothing happened then. Nothing will happen now, it's a hot button issue and I can't see the courts allowing the order to be enforced. even the El Al pilots have said they will not fly the routes to take the refugees back so this is just grandstanding

I will say this, I wouldn't venture out at night to the area around the Tel Aviv Central Bus Station. 95% of that city is safe to walk at night, but not that area. It's not just the refugees, but that place is also hooker central, and I think some of those hookers have a dick. Although to be fair, the refugees I met are still better than the Arsim at Carmelit Market. Can we send the Arsim to Sudan and keep the refugees?

To add to CH's point, the refugees also travel through Egypt, but don't stop there for some reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Also, once again I ask, what in the late 1940s made someone a Palestinian and what separated them from and made them distinct vs. other Arabs in the Levant?



Nothing just like you'd be hard pressed to define what constitutes an Israeli (Pre 1948) person. If you were a descendant of the region where ancient Palestine existed then that makes you Palestinian.


You have continued to make the rather false claim that the Balfour Declaration played minimal to no role. If that is the case then why did the Jewish population increase sixfold (Less than 100,000) to (More than 600,000) After the Declaration was made? You don't believe that this Declaration was a direct cause of said population increase?


What accounts for the increase in population if not the Balfour Declaration?

I can tell you what a Jew is pre-1948. Israel was founded as a nationstate, which means it is a state for a particular nation or group of people. In this case, the Jewish people. You can easily define the Jewish people as a nation due to the link of a common heritage, common language, common origin story, and shared genetics.

I still don't know how you can define Palestinians as a nation or distinct group as nothing separates them from any other Arab in the Levant. Palestinians are an invented people, they never existed as a distinct group until post partition.

As for the growing Jewish population, that came from migration and the purchase of lands. The migration into those lands was done in a legal manner and eventually the Jews had enough of a presence to justify the establishment of a nation, especially when there was no government over the land once the British departed. This is all independent of the Balfour Declaration.



I don't think you quite understand how settlement patterns work.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:04 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Also, once again I ask, what in the late 1940s made someone a Palestinian and what separated them from and made them distinct vs. other Arabs in the Levant?



Nothing just like you'd be hard pressed to define what constitutes an Israeli (Pre 1948) person. If you were a descendant of the region where ancient Palestine existed then that makes you Palestinian.


You have continued to make the rather false claim that the Balfour Declaration played minimal to no role. If that is the case then why did the Jewish population increase sixfold (Less than 100,000) to (More than 600,000) After the Declaration was made? You don't believe that this Declaration was a direct cause of said population increase?


What accounts for the increase in population if not the Balfour Declaration?

I can tell you what a Jew is pre-1948. Israel was founded as a nationstate, which means it is a state for a particular nation or group of people. In this case, the Jewish people. You can easily define the Jewish people as a nation due to the link of a common heritage, common language, common origin story, and shared genetics.

I still don't know how you can define Palestinians as a nation or distinct group as nothing separates them from any other Arab in the Levant. Palestinians are an invented people, they never existed as a distinct group until post partition.

As for the growing Jewish population, that came from migration and the purchase of lands. The migration into those lands was done in a legal manner and eventually the Jews had enough of a presence to justify the establishment of a nation, especially when there was no government over the land once the British departed. This is all independent of the Balfour Declaration.



I don't think you quite understand how settlement patterns work.

Jews moved in and built cites on land which was empty. There was nothing but sand dunes north of Jaffa in 1900. It was built from the ground up and not a soul was displaced until the Arabs fled in 1948 at the request of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and 3 other Arab nations who told them that they would exterminate the Jews and then they could return. The Arabs who stayed despite such calls still live on that land as do their descendants with full voting rights, freedom of speech, the ability to run for office, etc. No other Arab in the Middle East has such rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:07 pm 
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Palestine is called Palestine in the Bible which I believe was written prior to 1948.

I did a search here, no results found

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... chtype=all

Try again. Don't be Juice.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Palestine is called Palestine in the Bible which I believe was written prior to 1948.

I did a search here, no results found

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... chtype=all

Try again. Don't be Juice.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

Philistines have no connection to Palestinians. As I have stated, they were Greek. Palestinians are Arab. There is absolutely no connection between the two other than the fact the Romans adopted the name Philistine when trying to rename Judea.

Try again

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:13 pm 
So this is your thing? Like JORR and "you want Hillary installed" thing? Ok cool. Good talk.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Palestine is called Palestine in the Bible which I believe was written prior to 1948.

Baby McNown wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Palatine was founded back in 1866. Not sure what you chumps are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
So this is your thing? Like JORR and "you want Hillary installed" thing? Ok cool. Good talk.

Archaeological records literally prove that the Philistines were Greek and from the Aegean Sea region. People who call themselves Palestinian by contrast are Arab. Take a wild guess where Arabs originate from.

I know facts might be a problem for you here.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:22 pm 
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I mean, they are related. Isn't Palestine pronounced "Filasteen" in Arabic?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
So this is your thing? Like JORR and "you want Hillary installed" thing? Ok cool. Good talk.



Are we really going to pretend that there aren't thousands of people who fantasize about somehow installing Hillary as president?

Beyond, that learn some fuckin' history. The Romans specifically chose to call it "Palestina" to shove it up the ass of the Jews. Anti-Semitism didn't start with Hitler.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:26 pm 
You Rightys are sure fucking touchy when it comes to Jews.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I mean, they are related. Isn't Palestine pronounced "Filasteen" in Arabic?

related in the sense that the Romans renamed the name after the Philistines (who had returned back to Greece 600 years ago by then) With that said, the people calling themselves Palestinian have no connection to the ancient Philistines

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:27 pm 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


Are we really going to pretend that there aren't thousands of people who fantasize about somehow installing Hillary as president?

Honestly. On this one grow the fuck up.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


Are we really going to pretend that there aren't thousands of people who fantasize about somehow installing Hillary as president?

Honestly. On this one grow the fuck up.



No, seriously, if you are trying to deny that you're either not paying attention or you are simply being disingenuous. People aren't writing these pieces about tortured ways that such a thing might, maybe, could, possibly occur constitutionally because there isn't a big audience for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:35 pm 
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What's wrong with what he said? The #resistance libs have been clear that if they can win the House, the Democrats can install Hillary as Speaker of the House, then impeach and remove Trump and Pence, thereby giving the Slay Kween her rightful presidency. This is what many liberals want.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
What's wrong with what he said? The #resistance libs have been clear that if they can win the House, the Democrats can install Hillary as Speaker of the House, then impeach and remove Trump and Pence, thereby giving the Slay Kween her rightful presidency. This is what many liberals want.

to be fair, that plan wouldn't even work as you still need 67 votes in the Senate.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:45 pm 
Curious Hair wrote:
What's wrong with what he said? The #resistance libs have been clear that if they can win the House, the Democrats can install Hillary as Speaker of the House, then impeach and remove Trump and Pence, thereby giving the Slay Kween her rightful presidency. This is what many liberals want.

Define many. And don't cite the Lib versions of Fox Nation as your sources.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:45 pm 
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I don't get why we are arguing about this. Everyone knows the original Jews were black. This has been covered up by the evil white man made by Yacoub.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:46 pm 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


Are we really going to pretend that there aren't thousands of people who fantasize about somehow installing Hillary as president?

Honestly. On this one grow the fuck up.



No, seriously, if you are trying to deny that you're either not paying attention or you are simply being disingenuous. People aren't writing these pieces about tortured ways that such a thing might, maybe, could, possibly occur constitutionally because there isn't a big audience for it.

Your obsession with this is sad really.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Palatine was founded back in 1866. Not sure what you chumps are talking about.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Also, once again I ask, what in the late 1940s made someone a Palestinian and what separated them from and made them distinct vs. other Arabs in the Levant?



Nothing just like you'd be hard pressed to define what constitutes an Israeli (Pre 1948) person. If you were a descendant of the region where ancient Palestine existed then that makes you Palestinian.


You have continued to make the rather false claim that the Balfour Declaration played minimal to no role. If that is the case then why did the Jewish population increase sixfold (Less than 100,000) to (More than 600,000) After the Declaration was made? You don't believe that this Declaration was a direct cause of said population increase?


What accounts for the increase in population if not the Balfour Declaration?

I can tell you what a Jew is pre-1948. Israel was founded as a nationstate, which means it is a state for a particular nation or group of people. In this case, the Jewish people. You can easily define the Jewish people as a nation due to the link of a common heritage, common language, common origin story, and shared genetics.

I still don't know how you can define Palestinians as a nation or distinct group as nothing separates them from any other Arab in the Levant. Palestinians are an invented people, they never existed as a distinct group until post partition.

As for the growing Jewish population, that came from migration and the purchase of lands. The migration into those lands was done in a legal manner and eventually the Jews had enough of a presence to justify the establishment of a nation, especially when there was no government over the land once the British departed. This is all independent of the Balfour Declaration.



Even if one grants the fact that Palestinians are really no different than other Arabs one can easily flip it by arguing about the "shared genetics" "common language" and "common heritage" of Jews myth. An Ethiopian Jew doesn't share any of these things with a Hungarian Jew. Their sharedness relates to religion and nothing else. Just as you state the term Palestinian is a contrived term, then the shared characteristics of Jews is also contrived.


How does an Ethiopian or Hungarian Jew profess to have more of a claim to statehood than a Palestinian?

The argument is much stronger for Middle Eastern Jews but how does one provide statehood for people with no connection to the region? The vast majority of people that migrated to Israel were people that had no connection to Israel.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
What's wrong with what he said? The #resistance libs have been clear that if they can win the House, the Democrats can install Hillary as Speaker of the House, then impeach and remove Trump and Pence, thereby giving the Slay Kween her rightful presidency. This is what many liberals want.

Define many. And don't cite the Lib versions of Fox Nation as your sources.



I'm gonna take a wild guess that Curious Hair NEVER watches Fox. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
What's wrong with what he said? The #resistance libs have been clear that if they can win the House, the Democrats can install Hillary as Speaker of the House, then impeach and remove Trump and Pence, thereby giving the Slay Kween her rightful presidency. This is what many liberals want.

Define many. And don't cite the Lib versions of Fox Nation as your sources.



I'm gonna take a wild guess that Curious Hair NEVER watches Fox. :lol:

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
What's wrong with what he said? The #resistance libs have been clear that if they can win the House, the Democrats can install Hillary as Speaker of the House, then impeach and remove Trump and Pence, thereby giving the Slay Kween her rightful presidency. This is what many liberals want.

Define many. And don't cite the Lib versions of Fox Nation as your sources.



I'm gonna take a wild guess that Curious Hair NEVER watches Fox. :lol:

:lol:

now that would be an upset.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Palestine is called Palestine in the Bible which I believe was written prior to 1948.

I did a search here, no results found

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... chtype=all

https://focusonjerusalem.com/thebibleandpalestine.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
That land was never called Palestine until after 135 when the Romans renamed Judea in an attempt to try to remove the Jewish connection to the land after the Bar Kochba Revolt.

This is false. The Greeks referred to the land as Palestine as early as 5th century BC.

Again, and as always, Ogie's exact argument is also grounds to disband the United States, since it is not formed from one single ethnoculutral background, separate from any others.

The Greeks never called the land Palestine. You are mistaking Palestine with Philistine, who shares nothing in common with so-called Palestinians. Philistines were Greek in origin where as the so-called Palestinians are certainly Arabic in origin and most likely descendants of the groups which came into the lands from the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century when the Caliphate was formed. That is why Palestinians are Arab and not Greek. That is also why they are non-distinct as an ethnic group from Arab peoples within Syria and Jordan.

Quote:
The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece, when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.


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