I said one's IQ can vary over time depending on his or her environment. So one's realized intelligence is variable.

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I'm not sure what your point is. I.Q. tests don't measure potential.

The average white person outperforms the average black person on I.Q. tests, as does the average wealthy person when compared to the average poor one.

Are we thus left to assume that whites are inherently more intelligent than blacks, or that rich people are inherently more intelligent than poor ones. Or do white and wealthy people enjoy certain social advantages that allow them to perform better than black and poor ones?

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Unfortunately, the world is full of people with high amounts of unrealized intelligence.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

IQ tests and their ilk are supposed (stress supposed) to measure aptitude, not what is already learned. However there are many problems, as TM already mentioned many are biased against ethnic/racial groups, low SES and females. There are tests that try to correct this. There is also a problem of validity for tests that are used too often. Psychologists try to stress the difference between IQ and different types of intelligence (the multiple intelligences theory or G and S factors of intelligence).

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Hey - I haven't been able to get to the board today - I was at my monthly MENSA meeting. What did I miss?

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If Jerome has four watermelons, and Tyrone has two racks of ribs, but gives one to Keisha, he has one rack of ribs left. But Keisha also has taken one watermelon from Jerome, and has three orange drinks in front of her. Keisha has also offered one of her orange drinks to her grand momma, who is fixing to go to the Jewels. If Tyrone takes one of her orange drinks, whom does Jerome have to take from in order to have two orange drinks?

Mmmm.... Orange drink. Good stuff.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

The farther I've gotten from "higher education" years ago and the further I've broadened my perspective on real people, wealth, knowledge, etc., the less I tend to judge much less notice anyone's education.

How much for 1 rib?

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Solid Zach.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Homey - we don't sell just one rib!


(Got change for a $100?)

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Our cups cost more than that

F--- the cup. Pour it in my hands!

I guess I put more stock in what someone is rather than what they could have done. I am certainly not saying that any race is superior to any. I am just saying that on average a college educated person will score better on just about any type of intelligence test you can come up with. I guess I am talking about where they are now and you are talking about what they could have been. The discussion of the economic or educational divide doesn't have much bearing on this. I am not trying to prove that whites are superior to blacks or any other race and I don't really see the point of bringing it up. That's why I wanted you to give me a test that measures intelligence that would be in favor of high school graduates.

I don't get why race was brought into this discussion in the first place. It's about college graduates vs. high school graduates and the likelihood that a college graduate will be smarter than a high school graduate until proven otherwise.

I think some people think intelligence is what you could have been. I think it is what you are right now as I fully acknowledge that I did not reach my full potential.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Race and class are important to the discussion because they have a significant bearing on who goes to college and who doesn't. Being a college graduate is a form of social status and thus has a social context that is inextricably linked to racial and class identity.

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Is it really necessary to copy a long series of quotes to respond to something? A suggestion: just pick out the exact sentence, graph or post you are responding to, not the entire chain. This thread has more copied quotes than a Sam Smith column.

Exactly.

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What he said.

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I'm in 100% agreement.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Uneeded copying is wrong!!!

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Indeed.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Hey Guys! What are you talking about?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Unecessary copying. We hate it. Anything you want to add?

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To clarify: Claims about the intelligence of college graduates vs. the intelligence of non-grads are also (to some degree, at least) implicitly claims about the intelligence of white and wealthy people vs. black and poor people.

I would also point out that a much larger percentage of American women graduate from college today as opposed to forty years ago. Does that mean women have become more innately intelligent over the past forty years? Or have the social conditions affecting the higher education of women changed? Similarly, the percentage of African-Americans graduating from college was significantly higher in 1975 than it was in 1960, but is now lower than it was in 1975. Are we to assume that black people are somehow smarter today than in 1960, but not as smart as they were in 1975? Or again, are there larger social forces that determine these trends? Finally, if one's educational level is thus heavily determined by social opportunity, do disparities in IQ between college grads and non-grads really reflect a disparity in native intelligence, or a disparity in social opportunity? I think it's clear that the latter is closer to the truth than the former.

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I don't understand what you are arguing. No one is saying that any race or group is intellectually superior. I will acknowledge that many women and minorities were unable to meet their intellectual potential in the 60's and there still is a divide based off of racial and economic lines when it comes to post-high school studies. I'm not sure why you keep on bringing this up. That is fairly obvious. No one is saying that rich white people are smarter by some genetic factor. I'm not even saying white people are smarter.

Let's take out the racial and gender part of the equation.
A white male who graduates from college will on average be smarter than a white male who only graduates from high school. A white female who graduates from college will on average be smarter than a white female who only graduates from high school. A black male who graduates from college will on average be smarter than a black male who only graduates from high school. A black female who graduates from college will on average be smarter than a black female who only graduates from high school.

I am making that claim based off of one factor only. They have continued their studies for 4-5 years longer than the other person. There are exceptions to the rule all the time. This is why I keep on going back to the analogy of a college athlete. The college athlete was on par with his peers after graduating high school. He, however, will improve his physical ability at a greater pace than his peers who did not play college sports. There will be people that find other ways to improve and some will improve more than him but over the next 4-5 years he will improve better than most others he was at one point equal to.

It has nothing to do with race, or gender, or anything. It is about someone taking 4-5 years to learn. The same argument could be made that a high school graduate is smarter than someone who drops out of school and does not get their GED.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well sure, an average person who reads and studies will be smarter than an average person who doesn't read or study. But in our society, one can't separate one's educational level from his class and/or racial identity. The abstract comparison you attempt to make is thus invidious because of the social hierarchy in which we live.

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I like you better as NSJ.

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Yes, Mao. It has been proven that people have a large variety of excuses why they should not live up to their human potential. It shows us that some of those who consider themselves to be intellectually superior are college dropouts who figure they were too smart for their schools. It proves that many use social norms and cultural bias and their effect on the success of schooling to hide the fact that they are indeed quite racist in their expectations of certain cultural groups.
That is about it. Mao, come over for coffee.
Your Dear Friend,
Evil

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My Mother was a witch...she was burned alive
Thankless little bitch, for the tears I cried
Take her down now, don't wanna see her face.
All blistered and burnt, can't hide my disgrace.
Am I evil? Yes. I am.

I liked you better as the Teflon Svengali of Change.

I liked you better as Drunk Driving with Stu-Gotz.

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Hm?