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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:52 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
You over use the _____ is a bad look thing. It's ironically....a bad look.

How many people did Bundy have?

That was and continues to be the example Ogie us using.

You think the US military is unable to take out Bundy and pals?

So the US government is afraid of murdering people because they dont want to incite an armed insurrection that they know they cannot win....and you say that's a bad thing?

I said nothing about an armed insurrection and definitely didn't say any of this was a bad thing.

I'm just playing out the "defend against tyrannical government" thing in our current reality.


But anyway, seems were just back to the inevitable conclusion. Our rights to bear arms...any and all arms...is more important than any amount of dead people/kids.

That's just our reality. I get it.



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Right. No amount of dead children will deter us. We're in agreement.

Look, we could end gang violence (which kills far more people) if we did away with the 4th Amendment. I still say that I would rather see gang members (and all citizens) maintain their constitutional rights than I would see us end gang violence. Why? Because when we do away with 4th Amendment rights for gang.members, doing away with those rights for you and me would quickly follow.

The Bill of Rights is a fantastic document and I personally cherish those rights and would not part with any of them if it made me more safe and secure. What's the point of safety and security if you have no liberty?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:53 am 
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America wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a land war on foreign territory and fighting on land that you are familiar with is different. RPB is right.

a soldier from Florida is going to very adept and familiar with rural Oregon.


The Unites States military definitely will be. Now will that soldier follow orders to attack Americans I don't know. They have drones that will.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:53 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I’m not getting mad, but good luck telling people what they are and aren’t allowed to get mad about :lol:

Well they would deserve what they got if they took up arms against the government to fight against a legally passed Constitutional amendment.

Keep in mind here the issue isn't the repeal. I don't think it should be repealed. However the gun lobby is offering no solutions at all. America just flat out said it.

The unlikely repeal may be the only shot at any meaningful change.

I am pretty confident that total confiscation would result in an armed revolution regardless of it being completely legal.

I'm not sure confiscation would be part of it.

Banning the sale, transfer and use is probably enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:54 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
0.0000000001 % chance it will happen but if it did...0% chance you as a citizen are putting up an defense against the military.

If they wanted to, the government could have erased Bundy and his pals from existence in about 2 seconds.

Goat fuckers with old Soviet shit have stymied the USA for over a decade in Afghanistan. An F-22 can't stand on a street corner.

Yeah. Pretty much the entire history of the world would disagree with RPB there.

So Ogie and his buddies in his well regulated militia could stand up to the United States military?

No.

But if there was a large armed resistance than the answer would then become yes.

and recent history would back this up. The Taliban does not have any tanks, fighter jets, etc. but here they are 16 years later and gaining ground. We never repelled the Vietcong either.


Citing our military failures vs. the Taliban and the Viet Cong without acknowledging our involvement in areas where we had no real understanding of those groups or their rationales, the allure and support in their own homelands or their organizational makeup and size is disingenuous. It was more than anything and unfortunate display of our leadership's ignorance and arrogance imo. And so we have groups of lightly armed goofs giving it to us for decades.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:54 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Good chat fellas. Appreciate all of you.

This is a good look.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I’m not getting mad, but good luck telling people what they are and aren’t allowed to get mad about :lol:

Well they would deserve what they got if they took up arms against the government to fight against a legally passed Constitutional amendment.

Keep in mind here the issue isn't the repeal. I don't think it should be repealed. However the gun lobby is offering no solutions at all. America just flat out said it.

The unlikely repeal may be the only shot at any meaningful change.

I am pretty confident that total confiscation would result in an armed revolution regardless of it being completely legal.

I'm not sure confiscation would be part of it.

Banning the sale, transfer and use is probably enough.

Not really thanks to 3D printing and computerized CNC mills

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:56 am 
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IMO, a well regulated militia would have some match-up problems vs an offense revolving around nuclear weapons.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:56 am 
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Nas wrote:
America wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a land war on foreign territory and fighting on land that you are familiar with is different. RPB is right.

a soldier from Florida is going to very adept and familiar with rural Oregon.


The Unites States military definitely will be. Now will that soldier follow orders to attack Americans I don't know.

the US military probably knows more about the topography of Iraq and Afghanistan than they do much of the rural western USA.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:57 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
[Citing our military failures vs. the Taliban and the Viet Cong without acknowledging our involvement in areas where we had no real understanding of those groups or their rationales, the allure and support in their own homelands or their organizational makeup and size is disingenuous. [u]It was more than anything and unfortunate display of our leadership's ignorance and arrogance imo[/u]. And so we have groups of lightly armed goofs giving it to us for decades.

:lol: :lol:

Well good thing that's no longer an issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:57 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I’m not getting mad, but good luck telling people what they are and aren’t allowed to get mad about :lol:

Well they would deserve what they got if they took up arms against the government to fight against a legally passed Constitutional amendment.

Keep in mind here the issue isn't the repeal. I don't think it should be repealed. However the gun lobby is offering no solutions at all. America just flat out said it.

The unlikely repeal may be the only shot at any meaningful change.

I am pretty confident that total confiscation would result in an armed revolution regardless of it being completely legal.

I'm not sure confiscation would be part of it.

Banning the sale, transfer and use is probably enough.

Not really thanks to 3D printing and computerized CNC mills

Go ahead and print one. What are you going to do with it?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:58 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:

Citing our military failures vs. the Taliban and the Viet Cong without acknowledging our involvement in areas where we had no real understanding of those groups or their rationales, the allure and support in their own homelands or their organizational makeup and size is disingenuous. It was more than anything and unfortunate display of our leadership's ignorance and arrogance imo. And so we have groups of lightly armed goofs giving it to us for decades.


You would think the revolutionary war would have taught us something about home field advantage.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
America wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a land war on foreign territory and fighting on land that you are familiar with is different. RPB is right.

a soldier from Florida is going to very adept and familiar with rural Oregon.


The Unites States military definitely will be. Now will that soldier follow orders to attack Americans I don't know. They have drones that will.

They need people to remotely pilot those drones.

Ogie is correct. There is zero doubt in my mind that a great number of soldiers would defect if any of this even came close to happening.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:59 am 
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the only way to reliably put down an armed insurrection is genocide. if the US government is perpetrating a genocide (which I think will probably happen in the next 20 years) you're gonna wish you had a rifle to defend yourself.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I’m not getting mad, but good luck telling people what they are and aren’t allowed to get mad about :lol:

Well they would deserve what they got if they took up arms against the government to fight against a legally passed Constitutional amendment.

Keep in mind here the issue isn't the repeal. I don't think it should be repealed. However the gun lobby is offering no solutions at all. America just flat out said it.

The unlikely repeal may be the only shot at any meaningful change.

I am pretty confident that total confiscation would result in an armed revolution regardless of it being completely legal.

I'm not sure confiscation would be part of it.

Banning the sale, transfer and use is probably enough.

Not really thanks to 3D printing and computerized CNC mills

Go ahead and print one. What are you going to do with it?

Honestly I prefer the CNC milled ones as they are equal in quality with the one you find at your local gun shop. Plus they finish quicker.

https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 am 
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Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:

Citing our military failures vs. the Taliban and the Viet Cong without acknowledging our involvement in areas where we had no real understanding of those groups or their rationales, the allure and support in their own homelands or their organizational makeup and size is disingenuous. It was more than anything and unfortunate display of our leadership's ignorance and arrogance imo. And so we have groups of lightly armed goofs giving it to us for decades.


You would think the revolutionary war would have taught us something about home field advantage.


A short 90 years later southerners proved that the lesson hadn't been learned by MANY

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 am 
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Upon further review, Scalia left a neat little hiccup in his Heller opinion that leaves open the idea of banning "dangerous and unusual weapons" as well as "arms that are highly unusual in society at large". You have got to respect the guy as a legal mind and provocateur if nothing else.

But do you really want to give this SCOTUS a chance to gnaw on "arms that are highly unusual in society at large", especially if Ginsburg checks out in the next 8 years or so?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:02 am 
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Have we figured out the resolution yet fellas?

No? Maybe when this reaches page 20 everyone will be in agreement.

Good day.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:03 am 
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America wrote:
the only way to reliably put down an armed insurrection is genocide. if the US government is perpetrating a genocide (which I think will probably happen in the next 20 years) you're gonna wish you had a rifle to defend yourself.


Fuck yeah. The government can come at me with their short range nukes, I got a mother fuckin rifle!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:04 am 
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Image


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:07 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Honestly I prefer the CNC milled ones as they are equal in quality with the one you find at your local gun shop. Plus they finish quicker.

https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner
So, what is a gun owner going to do with it? Can't shoot it anywhere. Can't carry it anywhere. Can't sell it or give it to anyone. Even if it use it in self defense in your home you are putting yourself in serious legal issues.

Or, instead of trying to literally remove an amendment of the Constitution, we just try and come up with some actual solutions to the current gun problem in the United States instead of pretending like it's either unsolvable or not a big deal or that the FBI should have locked up this kid for a youtube comment and being expelled from school.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:07 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Image

Literally what America(the poster) has used the past two days.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:08 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The Bill of Rights is a fantastic document and I personally cherish those rights and would not part with any of them if it made me more safe and secure. What's the point of safety and security if you have no liberty?


Why are you not actively protesting the restrictions on our 6th amendment rights?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:10 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Image

Literally what America(the poster) has used the past two days.


BRick, you're bad at this.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Image

Literally what America(the poster) has used the past two days.

Yup!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:12 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
America wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a land war on foreign territory and fighting on land that you are familiar with is different. RPB is right.

a soldier from Florida is going to very adept and familiar with rural Oregon.


The Unites States military definitely will be. Now will that soldier follow orders to attack Americans I don't know. They have drones that will.

They need people to remotely pilot those drones.

Ogie is correct. There is zero doubt in my mind that a great number of soldiers would defect if any of this even came close to happening.

Right-o! Just forget about that Civil War thing or Shay's Rebellion. Could never happen!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:13 am 
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Your V for Vendetta fantasies do make me laugh. If total anarchy hits, let me know how it works out for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:15 am 
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Caller Ron wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Image

Literally what America(the poster) has used the past two days.


BRick, you're bad at this.
He literally mentioned locking up mexicans and blacks in this thread who kill, while basically ignoring what happened here because school shootings don't happen much.

He didn't get to use the other category though.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:15 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
You over use the _____ is a bad look thing. It's ironically....a bad look.

How many people did Bundy have?

That was and continues to be the example Ogie us using.

You think the US military is unable to take out Bundy and pals?

So the US government is afraid of murdering people because they dont want to incite an armed insurrection that they know they cannot win....and you say that's a bad thing?

I said nothing about an armed insurrection and definitely didn't say any of this was a bad thing.

I'm just playing out the "defend against tyrannical government" thing in our current reality.


But anyway, seems were just back to the inevitable conclusion. Our rights to bear arms...any and all arms...is more important than any amount of dead people/kids.

That's just our reality. I get it.



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Right. No amount of dead children will deter us. We're in agreement.

Look, we could end gang violence (which kills far more people) if we did away with the 4th Amendment. I still say that I would rather see gang members (and all citizens) maintain their constitutional rights than I would see us end gang violence. Why? Because when we do away with 4th Amendment rights for gang.members, doing away with those rights for you and me would quickly follow.

The Bill of Rights is a fantastic document and I personally cherish those rights and would not part with any of them if it made me more safe and secure. What's the point of safety and security if you have no liberty?

Right. Kinda sucks for parents of dead children though.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:16 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Honestly I prefer the CNC milled ones as they are equal in quality with the one you find at your local gun shop. Plus they finish quicker.

https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner
So, what is a gun owner going to do with it? Can't shoot it anywhere. Can't carry it anywhere. Can't sell it or give it to anyone. Even if it use it in self defense in your home you are putting yourself in serious legal issues.

Or, instead of trying to literally remove an amendment of the Constitution, we just try and come up with some actual solutions to the current gun problem in the United States instead of pretending like it's either unsolvable or not a big deal or that the FBI should have locked up this kid for a youtube comment and being expelled from school.

Your proposed law would never hold up against the 2nd Amendment. It's really not even worth discussing because no reading of the 2nd Amendment would allow for it

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:16 am 
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How high do you have to be to think that the U.S. government could squash uprisings with nuclear weapons and F-15s?

It wouldn't and couldn't happen that way. Can you imagine being in the room when a president gave the order to nuke downtown Manhattan? My hope would be that the order would be refused on several levels.

We ARE the government. Those people in the military, congress, the bureaucracy, the cabinet, etc. are our neighbors, friends, and family. The government isn't some nebulous evil force that would nuke its own citizens. We could very well overthrow the government if enough people believed in it.


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