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mrgoodkat
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Great. Nobody is suggesting regime change though..just stricter laws that prevent 19 year old nut jobs(and JLN) from getting guns.


What do you know that career statisticians who looked at 33,000 yearly cases do not? Nothing, is the correct answer. There are no proposed regulation answers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... bc8dc7c234

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... l-n2390230

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Caller Bob
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:53 pm 
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mrgoodkat wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Great. Nobody is suggesting regime change though..just stricter laws that prevent 19 year old nut jobs(and JLN) from getting guns.


What do you know that career statisticians who looked at 33,000 yearly cases do not? Nothing, is the correct answer. There are no proposed regulation answers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... bc8dc7c234

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... l-n2390230


Two opinion pieces. You win?
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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Any time you want to start debating, then, go ahead. I'll recap:

1. "Forfeiting" rights when seeking mental health treatment will surely encourage MANY gun owners to seek treatment (it won't, it will exacerbate the problem).

2. Mental health treatment doesn't culminate in an "all good" certificate or diagnosis, and we're still not really sure which mental illnesses are lifelong, recurring, curable, manageable, or what, to the degree where we can start taking people's rights away for seeking treatment.

3. It was a YouTube comment featuring his name (don't bring up the Insta post, that's unconfirmed and wasn't part of your original argument) made mention of violence, it is unknown whether he was behind the account.

4. Saying he was "given" a gun by the country and "allowed to slaughter children" is disgustingly disingenuous.


So you've told me that I was wrong (not unexpected) but I'm interested in hearing what you to see done. Remember there are no perfect solutions.


You can start by accepting Heller as the law of the land. Then you can try to legislate in the nifty little window Scalia gave and force SCOTUS to actually decide on how to classify "unusually dangerous" weapons. Then, accept that result.
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Seacrest
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
JLN has a bumpstock trigger here.



Making fun of people with mental health issues not a joke. Perhaps it’s time to JLN logged off and got more help.

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Nas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Any time you want to start debating, then, go ahead. I'll recap:

1. "Forfeiting" rights when seeking mental health treatment will surely encourage MANY gun owners to seek treatment (it won't, it will exacerbate the problem).

2. Mental health treatment doesn't culminate in an "all good" certificate or diagnosis, and we're still not really sure which mental illnesses are lifelong, recurring, curable, manageable, or what, to the degree where we can start taking people's rights away for seeking treatment.

3. It was a YouTube comment featuring his name (don't bring up the Insta post, that's unconfirmed and wasn't part of your original argument) made mention of violence, it is unknown whether he was behind the account.

4. Saying he was "given" a gun by the country and "allowed to slaughter children" is disgustingly disingenuous.


So you've told me that I was wrong (not unexpected) but I'm interested in hearing what you to see done. Remember there are no perfect solutions.


You can start by accepting Heller as the law of the land. Then you can try to legislate in the nifty little window Scalia gave and force SCOTUS to actually decide on how to classify "unusually dangerous" weapons. Then, accept that result.


Okay.

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mrgoodkat
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
mrgoodkat wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Great. Nobody is suggesting regime change though..just stricter laws that prevent 19 year old nut jobs(and JLN) from getting guns.


What do you know that career statisticians who looked at 33,000 yearly cases do not? Nothing, is the correct answer. There are no proposed regulation answers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... bc8dc7c234

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... l-n2390230


Two opinion pieces. You win?


Im looking for answers just like you are. Simply saying we want something doesn't make it feasible. If we put feelings over facts and statistics we won't ever accomplish anything on this, or anything else. Feelings over facts has become modus operandi for politicians, and our media. We can be better, until they are.

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Caller Bob
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:05 pm 
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mrgoodkat wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
mrgoodkat wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Great. Nobody is suggesting regime change though..just stricter laws that prevent 19 year old nut jobs(and JLN) from getting guns.


What do you know that career statisticians who looked at 33,000 yearly cases do not? Nothing, is the correct answer. There are no proposed regulation answers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... bc8dc7c234

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... l-n2390230


Two opinion pieces. You win?


Im looking for answers just like you are. Simply saying we want something doesn't make it feasible. If we put feelings over facts and statistics we won't ever accomplish anything on this, or anything else. Feelings over facts has become modus operandi for politicians, and our media. We can be better, until they are.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... 75fe218a5f
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storkinastorm
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:05 pm 
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I've never understood the assumption that something MUST be done.

A person is infinitely more likely to die from a number of things than from a school shooting, terrible as they may be.

The gun debate also always surfaces after school shootings even though way more people die every day from street shootings.
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Nas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:08 pm 
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storkinastorm wrote:
I've never understood the assumption that something MUST be done.

A person is infinitely more likely to die from a number of things than from a school shooting, terrible as they may be.

The gun debate also always surfaces after school shootings even though way more people die every day from street shootings.


When kids are frequently being slaughtered in a place that most parents believe to be safe, WE need to try to find a solution.

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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 pm 
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How many plane hijackings do we have nowadays? Security measures can be put in place that are highly effective.

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
How many plane hijackings do we have nowadays? Security measures can be put in place that are highly effective.

Those security measures are nothing more than security theater. TSA fails to detect 95% of weapons when tested

http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-unde ... d=31434881

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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:16 pm 
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well then install security theater because it has worked.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
JLN has a bumpstock trigger here.



Making fun of people with mental health issues not a joke. Perhaps it’s time to JLN logged off and got more help.


Come off it, already. I told Nas to fuck off because he was being extra-specially disingenuous to the point of generally insulting.
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storkinastorm
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Nas wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
I've never understood the assumption that something MUST be done.

A person is infinitely more likely to die from a number of things than from a school shooting, terrible as they may be.

The gun debate also always surfaces after school shootings even though way more people die every day from street shootings.


When kids are frequently being slaughtered in a place that most parents believe to be safe, WE need to try to find a solution.


I don't want this to sound callous, because one death of a youngster is too many, but saying that kids are "frequently being slaughtered" at schools is beyond exaggeration. There are probably higher odds of being struck by lightning.

Again, one death is terrible, but exaggerating these things doesn't help the conversation.
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Nas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
How many plane hijackings do we have nowadays? Security measures can be put in place that are highly effective.

Those security measures are nothing more than security theater. TSA fails to detect 95% of weapons when tested

http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-unde ... d=31434881


I've had my hands wiped and my stuff looked through enough that I wouldn't think about bringing something on a plane. These things act as a deterrent.

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Nas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:20 pm 
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storkinastorm wrote:
Nas wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
I've never understood the assumption that something MUST be done.

A person is infinitely more likely to die from a number of things than from a school shooting, terrible as they may be.

The gun debate also always surfaces after school shootings even though way more people die every day from street shootings.


When kids are frequently being slaughtered in a place that most parents believe to be safe, WE need to try to find a solution.


I don't want this to sound callous, because one death of a youngster is too many, but saying that kids are "frequently being slaughtered" at schools is beyond exaggeration. There are probably higher odds of being struck by lightning.

Again, one death is terrible, but exaggerating these things doesn't help the conversation.


There are dozens of schools shooting a year probably at least 1 mass shooting. Maybe the word slaughtered was too strong for most but I think you get the point.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
How many plane hijackings do we have nowadays? Security measures can be put in place that are highly effective.


Pick any basis you want (per flight, per day of flights, per year of commercial jet air travel, per number of airlines) did we really have that many before 9/11, even when counting it?
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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
well then install security theater because it has worked.

It really hasn't worked. The lack of an event occurring does not necessarily mean the security theater is working. It simply means no one has bothered to attempt it and based upon testing someone trying to attempt it would likely succeed.

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
How many plane hijackings do we have nowadays? Security measures can be put in place that are highly effective.

Those security measures are nothing more than security theater. TSA fails to detect 95% of weapons when tested

http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-unde ... d=31434881


I've had my hands wiped and my stuff looked through enough that I wouldn't think about bringing something on a plane. These things act as a deterrent.

I think you're getting profiled as that has never happened to me.

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
JLN has a bumpstock trigger here.



Making fun of people with mental health issues not a joke. Perhaps it’s time to JLN logged off and got more help.


Come off it, already. I told Nas to fuck off because he was being extra-specially disingenuous to the point of generally insulting.

If telling someone to fuck off is indicative of mental health issues... we're gonna need a bigger ward.

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Don Tiny
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Curious Hair wrote:
pittmike wrote:
The guy's name is Nikolas. maybe his mama in Cuba got knocked up by a Soviet sailor in Havana and he moved to Florida with a half white mission. Russia!

Cubans have all kinds of wacky Russianesque names now. Every other reliever who comes here is named "Dostoyevsky Hernandez" or something.

He calls his fastball "Crime" and his slider "Punishment".

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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:30 pm 
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I brought a pocket knife on a plane accidentally. It got through on the way there but they caught it on the way back. 50% success.

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I brought a pocket knife on a plane accidentally. It got through on the way there but they caught it on the way back. 50% success.

anecdote.

Actual studies have proven a 90+% failure rate time and time again

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conns7901
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Have any of these 3d printing weapons that make gun laws useless actually been used in a mass shooting?

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:38 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Have any of these 3d printing weapons that make gun laws useless actually been used in a mass shooting?

They have not as most of the people who are making such weapons are hobbyists or privacy advocates who do so to demonstrate that they can.

The CNC mill guns are a different story as I'm hearing some of those are being used in crimes.

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Dignified Rube
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Nas wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
I've never understood the assumption that something MUST be done.

A person is infinitely more likely to die from a number of things than from a school shooting, terrible as they may be.

The gun debate also always surfaces after school shootings even though way more people die every day from street shootings.


When kids are frequently being slaughtered in a place that most parents believe to be safe, WE need to try to find a solution.


How about banning all the violent films and ending the glorification of violence in film and on TV for starters? It was not always like this, where human life has been so degraded as to be worthless. And then you have the local news rolling the police report every night, so that the violence is virtually inescapable.

The federal government is just as much to blame for its militarism and endless wars. We need to bring "Make Peace, Not War" back, but peace doesn't sell.
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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
Nas wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
I've never understood the assumption that something MUST be done.

A person is infinitely more likely to die from a number of things than from a school shooting, terrible as they may be.

The gun debate also always surfaces after school shootings even though way more people die every day from street shootings.


When kids are frequently being slaughtered in a place that most parents believe to be safe, WE need to try to find a solution.


How about banning all the violent films and ending the glorification of violence in film and on TV for starters? It was not always like this, where human life has been so degraded as to be worthless. And then you have the local news rolling the police report every night, so that the violence is virtually inescapable.

The federal government is just as much to blame for its militarism and endless wars. We need to bring "Make Peace, Not War" back, but peace doesn't sell.

Heck the media plasters the face of the killers all over the news so that you'll never forget their names.

If you're a fucking no good loser you can either kill yourself and be forgotten or pull this shit and become infamous thanks to the media. To say they glorify this would be an understatement

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Darkside
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I am curious as well.


Speech & assembly, search & seizure, voting. And I didn't say they would be but that they could be. I think it's poignant that it is the 2nd one. The first was rights to live freely and the second was a way for them to ensure and defend the first.
So, how do so many people who have never owned a gun do these things?

Also, let's use search & seizure as an example. Say I was carrying a gun, and a police officer started an illegal search and seizure of my vehicle. Is the expectation that I use my gun to stop it?

If anything, police officers would be safer to deal with in the hypothetical dream world where no civilians have guns. It would solve much of the "feared for his life" line of thinking.

Most cops are all for armed citizens.

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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
I brought a pocket knife on a plane accidentally. It got through on the way there but they caught it on the way back. 50% success.

anecdote.

Actual studies have proven a 90+% failure rate time and time again


Actual studies show that a plane hasn't been hijacked in 18 years.

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
I brought a pocket knife on a plane accidentally. It got through on the way there but they caught it on the way back. 50% success.

anecdote.

Actual studies have proven a 90+% failure rate time and time again


Actual studies show that a plane hasn't been hijacked in 18 years.

and before 9/11 how common were hijackings on a US flight? I just checked the list of hijackings and I had to go back to 1987 for a US origin flight

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