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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.


Are you trying to argue your point by comparing gun owners to David Koresh?

I'm saying the raid was started as a gun confiscation and that the violence which resulted from that raid led directly to Oklahoma City as an act of retribution.

I'm not justifying it, but I'm saying that it is how it played out and thus it is reasonable to say that similar raids could result in such events. History has a way of repeating itself.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.
The part I underlined absolutely did not happen in Waco. Those people were willing to die for their beliefs and their religion, hardly a first for people on this planet.

You make it seem like the Gov't knocked on Koresh's door and said "give us your guns or die."

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.


Are you trying to argue your point by comparing gun owners to David Koresh?

I'm saying the raid was started as a gun confiscation and that the violence which resulted from that raid led directly to Oklahoma City as an act of retribution.

I'm not justifying it, but I'm saying that it is how it played out and thus it is reasonable to say that similar raids could result in such events. History has a way of repeating itself.


So basically you are saying, if we press gun legislation, gun owners like yourself are willing to kill innocent women and children?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.
The part I underlined absolutely did not happen in Waco. Those people were willing to die for their beliefs and their religion, hardly a first for people on this planet.

You make it seem like the Gov't knocked on Koresh's door and said "give us your guns or die."

Answer this for me, what was the ATF doing there? Their purpose for being there was supposed weapons violations. That is why the Feds were there in the first place.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:39 pm 
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Nobody values their guns over their life.


WRONG!

Like you said, the lack of knowledge regarding rural America among most on this board is pretty astounding.

Should I have said nobody with a functioning brain?

What rights are you willing to give your life for? I'm asking this as an honest question.

Am I actually willing to die for? Maybe getting old and having kids has changed my idealism, but fuck that. I'd give my life to protect theirs. The rest of it you can keep.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.


Are you trying to argue your point by comparing gun owners to David Koresh?

I'm saying the raid was started as a gun confiscation and that the violence which resulted from that raid led directly to Oklahoma City as an act of retribution.

I'm not justifying it, but I'm saying that it is how it played out and thus it is reasonable to say that similar raids could result in such events. History has a way of repeating itself.


So basically you are saying, if we press gun legislation, gun owners like yourself are willing to kill innocent women and children?

I'm saying that if gun owners are killed in a government raid, it will breed anger which can lead to blowback. You can draw a direct line from Ruby Ridge to Waco to Oklahoma City as a chain of events.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.


Are you trying to argue your point by comparing gun owners to David Koresh?

I'm saying the raid was started as a gun confiscation and that the violence which resulted from that raid led directly to Oklahoma City as an act of retribution.

I'm not justifying it, but I'm saying that it is how it played out and thus it is reasonable to say that similar raids could result in such events. History has a way of repeating itself.


So basically you are saying, if we press gun legislation, gun owners like yourself are willing to kill innocent women and children?

I'm saying that if gun owners are killed in a government raid, it will breed anger which can lead to blowback. You can draw a direct line from Ruby Ridge to Waco to Oklahoma City as a chain of events.


Ok, see this is why people don't want you people to have guns.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:42 pm 
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can also point to Ruby Ridge and Waco as examples of what will happen if you want to go down the gun confiscation path. Yes people will be willing to lay down their life for their firearms and you can expect blowback like Oklahoma City when citizens die at the hands of the ATF.

That's not a hypothetical, this actually happened.


Are you trying to argue your point by comparing gun owners to David Koresh?

I'm saying the raid was started as a gun confiscation and that the violence which resulted from that raid led directly to Oklahoma City as an act of retribution.

I'm not justifying it, but I'm saying that it is how it played out and thus it is reasonable to say that similar raids could result in such events. History has a way of repeating itself.


So basically you are saying, if we press gun legislation, gun owners like yourself are willing to kill innocent women and children?

I'm saying that if gun owners are killed in a government raid, it will breed anger which can lead to blowback. You can draw a direct line from Ruby Ridge to Waco to Oklahoma City as a chain of events.

You aren't helping your case.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'm saying that if gun owners are killed in a government raid, it will breed anger which can lead to blowback. You can draw a direct line from Ruby Ridge to Waco to Oklahoma City as a chain of events.

You aren't helping your case.

My point is that gun confiscations would lead to violence against the government. This happened in colonial times and it has happened in modern times. There are more guns out in the general public right now than there are adults in this country. You can never confiscate them.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:44 pm 
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I'm sure all the LEOs will be the first to turn in their privately owned guns. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Answer this for me, what was the ATF doing there?
To execute a search warrant.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Answer this for me, what was the ATF doing there?
To execute a search warrant.

for what purpose?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:45 pm 
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I mean, re-read your comments. You are gun nuts, are just that, fucking nuts. I'm a nut too. I don't own a gun and I probably should't have one either. The only person to make a salient point was Darko in his thread.(I was just trolling him, fucker wouldn't take the bait).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I'm sure all the LEOs will be the first to turn in their privately owned guns. :lol:

I don't much like most LEO's, but I know for sure most of them would not carry out orders to confiscate firearms.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Answer this for me, what was the ATF doing there?
To execute a search warrant.

for what purpose?
For weapons. And there were illegal weapons on the property. The residents of the compound refused to let them in, and a shootout ensued.

If you refused to let the Feds into your house to serve a warrant, it would likely not end well for you either.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I mean, re-read your comments. You are gun nuts, are just that, fucking nuts. I'm a nut too. I don't own a gun and I probably should't have one either. The only person to make a salient point was Darko in his thread.(I was just trolling him, fucker wouldn't take the bait).

Saying 'nuts' that many times without at least one 'yarrrrr' is a terrible oversight.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Answer this for me, what was the ATF doing there?
To execute a search warrant.

for what purpose?
For weapons. And there were illegal weapons on the property. The residents of the compound refused to let them in, and a shootout ensued.

If you refused to let the Feds into your house to serve a warrant, it would likely not end well for you either.

so how do you think future gun confiscations would play out in this country?

What would the reaction be amongst others after there are dead bodies? Don't you think there may be some blowback to the agencies performing such work?

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:49 pm 
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
I'm sure all the LEOs will be the first to turn in their privately owned guns. :lol:

I don't much like most LEO's, but I know for sure most of them would not carry out orders to confiscate firearms.

Tell that to the CPD. I'm sure they wouldn't take weapons from their own, but hey would jump at the chance to clear the streets.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:50 pm 
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Answer this for me, what was the ATF doing there?
To execute a search warrant.

for what purpose?
For weapons. And there were illegal weapons on the property. The residents of the compound refused to let them in, and a shootout ensued.

If you refused to let the Feds into your house to serve a warrant, it would likely not end well for you either.

so how do you think future gun confiscations would play out in this country?

What would the reaction be amongst others after there are dead bodies? Don't you think there may be some blowback to the agencies performing such work?

If you are following the laws, you shouldn't have to worry. I swear I've heard that somewhere before....


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Please address the presence of illegal guns and weapons on the Branch Davidian compound.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:52 pm 
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I don't know why people have an issue with assault rifles but if you question it I will go branch davidian on you.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
What would the reaction be amongst others after there are dead bodies?
You mean the bodies at Sandy Hook, Vegas, Stoneman Douglas High, and The Pulse nightclub? The reaction so far has been pretty much nothing, outside of gun crazies like you stocking up on weapons and spouting off on social media.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Don't you think there may be some blowback to the agencies performing such work?
Yeah, there should be some major blowback against the NRA and any politician who accepts campaign donations from them. The Status Quo isn't working.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I don't know why people have an issue with assault rifles but if you question it I will go branch davidian on you.

Talk about a hot take ....

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I don't know why people have an issue with assault rifles but if you question it I will go branch davidian on you.


That needs to be a signature submission move on some indie circuit.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Please address the presence of illegal guns and weapons on the Branch Davidian compound.

If you want to believe the ATF and FBI sure, but the Davidians were minding their own business until the ATF showed up.

It's funny how both agencies made sure to never charge any of their own for massacres at Waco and Ruby Ridge. In fact the DOJ made sure the sniper who murdered Vicki Weaver got off of Idaho state charges.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:58 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Nobody values their guns over their life.


WRONG!

Like you said, the lack of knowledge regarding rural America among most on this board is pretty astounding.


Yup you city folk got no clue.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:59 pm 
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The Tree of Woe was a fine generic move on the old WWF N64 games. Could easily rename that.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
If you want to believe the ATF and FBI sure, but the Davidians were minding their own business(raping kids) until the ATF showed up.

.

Fixed.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
I'm sure all the LEOs will be the first to turn in their privately owned guns. :lol:

I don't much like most LEO's, but I know for sure most of them would not carry out orders to confiscate firearms.

Tell that to the CPD. I'm sure they wouldn't take weapons from their own, but hey would jump at the chance to clear the streets.

Every cop I've ever spoken to I've asked them how they feel about armed citizens and concealed carry. Info speak to a lot of cops by the way by virtue of my time at ranges and the fact I work in hundreds if not thousands of homes every year. Almost every single one has supported armed citizens and concealed carry. In fact I don't really recall any of them not supporting it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:02 pm 
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The Wall Street Journal has the solution:

Quote:
Responding to Parkland
The one solution that works is shooting back at shooters.
By The Editorial Board
Feb. 15, 2018 7:29 p.m. ET
822 COMMENTS

Add 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz to the list of disturbed young men who have committed mass murder against other young men and women in their communities. A partial list of these awful incidents includes Chris Harper-Mercer at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College; Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook school; James Holmes in Aurora, Colo.; Jared Lee Loughner in Tucson; and Cho Seung-Hui, who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007.

All these events have two things in common: guns and mental illness. From that fact flows the demand, every time, that we “do something.” Saying it, however, is not the same as doing something that would in fact mitigate this recurrent carnage. Doing something in our system inevitably means putting in motion an array of actors toward this goal—elected or appointed public officials, the police, the medical community and not least parents.

Guns first. When a Parkland happens, the liberal half of America’s politics puts forth the same two-word solution: gun control. There is a simple causality to this argument—fewer guns, fewer murders. Always left out is evidence it would work.
A Semi-automatic AR-15's is shown here at Good Guys Guns & Range, Orem, Utah, Feb. 15. An AR-15 was used in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida.
A Semi-automatic AR-15's is shown here at Good Guys Guns & Range, Orem, Utah, Feb. 15. An AR-15 was used in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida. Photo: George Frey/Getty Images

Gun-control laws—for example, to regulate bump stocks, AR-15s or ammunition magazines—foundered because advocates have never offered credible evidence they would deter mass shootings. Because gun proponents believe, not without reason, that the left’s ultimate goal is confiscation, the political prospects for a gun control solution have been and will remain about zero.

On Thursday the gun-control side pointed to President Trump’s signing of a bill last year revoking an Obama rule requiring the Social Security Administration to forward to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System the names of disability recipients who need a third party to help them manage their benefits because of a mental impairment. But this overly broad Obama rule was opposed by the American Civil Liberties Union and National Rifle Association.

That dispute nonetheless points to another part of the do-something demand: the violently mentally ill. Let us stipulate that a necessary line should separate the large population of people getting treatment for emotional or mental illnesses and those whose mental disturbance has brought them to the brink of doing significant physical violence.

Unlike gun control, medicine has ample evidence that appropriate medication or treatment can stabilize the violently mentally ill. The National Institute of Mental Health collects data on evidence-based approaches involving drugs, intense psychiatric treatment and intervention.

The argument here involves questions over what levels of therapeutic coercion should be permitted. For example, should courts be able to require the severely mentally ill to take treatment to avoid commitment to a hospital? With appropriate legal protections, we think the answer is yes. Advocates for this idea often include the patients’ distraught families.

For years, though, some mental-health activists and lawyers, with allies inside the federal bureaucracies, have fought the idea of involuntary institutionalization for violent patients who refuse treatment. Their approach clearly isn’t working. Treatment requirements, by the way, don’t need a federal law. States can enact civil-commitment laws if they wish.

There is also an interim solution against murderous assailants: shoot back. There is evidence it works.

Last November in Texas, a rifle instructor, with an AR-15, shot a suspect about to open fire on a church full of people. The shooter dropped his weapon and fled. In 2015 a security officer shot and killed two gunmen about to carry out an ISIS-inspired attack in Garland, Texas. The armed security guard at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High in Parkland didn’t get a chance to engage Nikolas Cruz, but fewer might have died if he had. Institutions such as schools probably must train and arm someone to provide self-defense in a world with so many threats.

There is one other possibility, suggested by President Trump in his Parkland statement Thursday: “Create a culture in our country that embraces the dignity of life.” The thought sounds self-evident. But on the available evidence, the idea of dignity in life looks more than ever to be in need of restoration.

:lol: :cry: :lol: :cry: :lol: :cry:


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