Just couple of notes

*Breathalyzers on cars has already been in play for a long time for DD offenders. That is a universally accepted measure that doesn't really have any opponents. If there was group like the NRA funded to stop that, you can bet it would.

Let's not even go down this path regarding vehicle safety. There was no point to introduce it into this thread. FavreFan did, well, because. We shouldn't be the lotion that gets him off. We ALL are better than that.

Neither of those points are being argued in this thread unless you decide to take it there. They are simply examples of things that would be comparable to gun control measures.

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All noble causes.

Nobody argues any side of those things.

You think if someone proposed changing the driving age to 21 and the DUI limit to .5 there wouldn’t be an enormous amount of pushback? Come on.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ok, first of all, the idea that we should ignore any problems that are not statistically the number one cause of death is ridiculous in and of itself. We are allowed to attack any problem we want big or small.

Secondly, I believe there are people fighting for those things, but they don't get a lot of press.

If I start a thread about texting and driving, it will go maybe 1 page.

If the DUI limit was .5, you might see some pushback, but probably not from the people that drunk.

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FYI, a BAC at .5 basically means you are in a coma. Do you mean .05?

Well, as Leash correctly pointed out (blind squirrel-nut) my analogy was bad.

But no one is going to argue that teens are good drivers or texting and driving is good.

But again, it's not strictly about the most deaths. Certain things can be changed easier than others. Certain things feel like we're doing all we can.

The people marching seem to think that law makers could do more here. They probably believe everything is being done to fight cancer, so that's why they dont fight that.

Can we stop the mental health charade though? Every country has mental health problems.


Can we just agree that America has more gun deaths because Americans have more guns?


I have never really asked for gun control. Im of the omelet-broken eggs theory. We need the second amendment, but the consequence of that is we are going to have more gun violence. And as the guns gets more deadly, so will the violence.


My arguments in this thread were not for gun control, they were for the kids walking out. They have the right to do that.

I think a good portion of those kids would support armed guards (not teachers) as a measure of protection.

Put conservative and lib aside

In my experience recently, pro gun people are way more condescending than gun control people at this moment in time. See any news article comment section and find the gun people mocking gun control people. It happened in this very thread several times.

I think a fair trade is Dead Kids are an unfortunate price to pay for our proud 2nd amendment rights for We will let the kids speak their opinion and not belittle or bash them. That should be the price/trade for this warped interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I'm willing to move on, but the Ammo-Sexuals have to keep going after the kids.

Good correction today.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

from FF? i think he did mean .5.

i'm not a "gun person". DannyB has a shotgun and I'm afraid he may shoot me. But from where I sit, the condescension is mainly because the anti-gun people often don't know what they're talking about.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I didnt say whether it was warranted or not but Leash ascribing it to the other side is not accurate anymore. It was for a long time.

It might also be because it usually goes like this:

Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: They are not the main reason for all this killing etc.
Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: There are many other things that would be more effective in reasing your goal of stopping killings.
Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: You are being closed minded and not even discussing any alternative like mental health care or better stops at purchase.
Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: Fuck you

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Elections have consequences.

It might also be because it usually goes like this:

Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: They are not the main reason for all this killing etc.
Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: There are many other things that would be more effective in reasing your goal of stopping killings.
Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: You are being closed minded and not even discussing any alternative like mental health care or better stops at purchase.
Anti-Gun Nut: Ban AR-15's!
Gun Nut: Fuck you

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Elections have consequences.

You can say that again!

I agree, I think the "disingenuous" part comes from the appeal to emotion ("I'm for anything that kills fewer children") that often coincides with arguments for gun control. That makes the gun control point seem disingenuous, because that same "for anything that kills fewer children" isn't brought up or addressed in other arenas not having to do with school/mass shootings.

That's just part of the shell game they play. It's happened to me multiple times on here. Ogie did it when he came out of nowhere to say that the worst school shooting was done by "pistols". You did it when you said what you did about banning all semi-automatic guns. Ogie did it when he constantly makes the case that AR15s are "nothing special as a firearm". Ogie did it when he tried the gotcha of "This gun is just like an AR15, do we ban that?".

It's amazing that seemingly the only ones who can make an educated post on gun control happen to be the people that want virtually no added gun control and anyone who questions a comment like that AR15s are "nothing special as a firearm" get told that they don't know anything about guns.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But you are in favor of banning all semi-automatic weapons which is pretty much all guns. You just dance around it but it eventually reaches a point where it comes right out.

Being in favor of repealing an amendment in the Bill of Rights is a real position but one everyone knows will NEVER fly. So dancing around what anti-gun people really want is necessary.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I just want to note that you can make a case this has long been a warped, misrepresentation view of said amendment.. certainly not indicative of initial draft . But I do see your point.

How are the guns used in the VA Tech shooting not handguns? You can Google image search them.

I am not in favor of banning all semi-automatic weapons.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment was a modest proposal by me. Do you think I honestly wanted to do it?

Now, I did argue that the younger generations may view things differently given that they were doing "bad guy with a gun killing everyone" drills as 2nd graders, and then their children are still doing the same "bad guy with a gun killing everyone" drills, while other leaders of the gun advocacy groups actively call for a huge increase in the amount of guns in schools including teachers who take a "course" about how to have a gun on them while they teach fractions to 2nd graders. Don't forget you actually argued a few weeks ago that the next generation of people are far different in their views on free speech and are significantly different than your generation. I guess you think the next generation can give up on the 1st amendment but wouldn't dare touch the 2nd amendment.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Here is governor Cuomo partaking in a die-in protesting gun violence while surrounded by armed guards.

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I think you can say you want to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people and still say there is a place for guns as protection.

The assumption that all in favor of gun control want to ban all guns is the problem here, imo.

Everyone believes in the First Amendment for themselves. MANY just don't believe in it for those who say something they don't like.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I’d say the notion that we don’t already have gun control is also a problem. It’s the most regulated product in the country.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I agree, but Cuomo has been one of the most ardent supporters of limiting gun-owners' rights. I'm sure if he had his way, he wouldn't want any private citizens to own firearms. Just as long as his royal ass is protected. He is a hypocritical shitbag.

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I mean, that may be the case but that's not what he says so I find it hard to hold him to something you think he probably thinks.