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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:59 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems odd that Goff is still an employee is he did not do what his program manager asked on show content. Sounds like he should be fired with cause. They seem afraid to launch Bernstein because he was a ratings success for such a longtime, but he might have burned his bridges to such a point that he won't be able to rebound even if he's "sticking to sports". Penn State claims another victim.


At that level of the business I'm positive there is some creative control schema built into the talent's contract.

Also, even if there isn't, or even if DeCastro could have ordered B&G to change their show to suit him, you run right back into the problem of "Old White Guy Tells Young Black Man To Pipe Down About Social Issues Or Get Fired".


If he would not have been so disdainful of his audience while doing social justice radio he would have had a stronger case. But do social just people really care about that?

I'd be surprised if he doesn't go full on martyr, and try to become a "justice" speaker/radio host. Shaun King has built a nice career out of it, and Jason is actually black and now has a story about being fired for his convictions.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:02 pm 
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It's interesting that the Goff superfans are all painting DeCastro as a virulent racist for firing their guy. I suppose they don't remember what his very first order of business was when the ink dried on the contract: putting a bullet in the head of K-Hits and flipping it to '90s rap, infuriating old white men who just wanted to listen to "Livin' on a Prayer" all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:02 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems odd that Goff is still an employee if4 he did not do what his program manager asked on show content. Sounds like he should be fired with cause.

What? He has a contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems odd that Goff is still an employee if4 he did not do what his program manager asked on show content. Sounds like he should be fired with cause.

What? He has a contract.

I assume he meant that the contract should have been terminated for insubordination, but "I told you to get better ratings and you didn't" is pretty dicey as far as insubordination goes. Then again, radio stations have been known to fire sales reps for cause to get out of paying unemployment insurance, citing "I told you to hit budget and you didn't," but that never holds up and I'm pretty sure it's just a company policy to spook the weak-willed out of claims.

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:05 pm 
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CH, I have to ask, has this thread really been an elegy? I am still waiting for my poem.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:06 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
CH, I have to ask, has this thread really been an elegy? I am still waiting for my poem.

I thought that's what the first post was. It read like a poem. Not a good one, but.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:07 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems odd that Goff is still an employee if4 he did not do what his program manager asked on show content. Sounds like he should be fired with cause. They seem afraid to launch Bernstein because he was a ratings success for such a longtime, but he might have burned his bridges to such a point that he won't be able to rebound even if he's "sticking to sports". Penn State claims another victim.



It's not odd at all.

There are no contractural clauses here that say the PD's or others get to tell you what to say or talk about. So he can't be fired for cause.

Bernstein, like him or not, has a large following here. And has had that for two decades. Bumping him off means you have a lot to lose. Jason was only a talent in the market for a little more than a year. He has nowhere near the same following.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems odd that Goff is still an employee if he did not do what his program manager asked on show content. Sounds like he should be fired with cause.

What? He has a contract.


If you are told to not talk about certain content on the air, but continue to do so it would seem that you are in violation of the contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
CH, I have to ask, has this thread really been an elegy? I am still waiting for my poem.

I thought that's what the first post was. It read like a poem. Not a good one, but.


That didn’t come through, and given your general posting excellence, I figured it was just me missing something. I guess that is exactly what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems odd that Goff is still an employee if4 he did not do what his program manager asked on show content. Sounds like he should be fired with cause. They seem afraid to launch Bernstein because he was a ratings success for such a longtime, but he might have burned his bridges to such a point that he won't be able to rebound even if he's "sticking to sports". Penn State claims another victim.



It's not odd at all.

There are no contractural clauses here that say the PD's or others get to tell you what to say or talk about. So he can't be fired for cause.

Bernstein, like him or not, has a large following here. And has had that for two decades. Bumping him off means you have a lot to lose. Jason was only a talent in the market for a little more than a year. He has nowhere near the same following.


The program directors get zero say in the content of the show? If you have a contract to talk sports on a station, but decide you would rather talk about politics it seems like there would be some recourse if the on-air talent didn't do what they were told.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:14 pm 
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I'd fire the agent who negotiated a contract where doing a talk show can get me fired for cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I'd fire the agent who negotiated a contract where doing a talk show can get me fired for cause.


This.

And also, There is a recourse.

You lose your show.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:32 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I'd be surprised if he doesn't go full on martyr, and try to become a "justice" speaker/radio host. Shaun King has built a nice career out of it, and Jason is actually black and now has a story about being fired for his convictions.
Interesting post given how offended you seemed to get when I pointed out the unlikliness of a second chance in the daytime if you are black.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I'd be surprised if he doesn't go full on martyr, and try to become a "justice" speaker/radio host. Shaun King has built a nice career out of it, and Jason is actually black and now has a story about being fired for his convictions.
Interesting post given how offended you seemed to get when I pointed out the unlikliness of a second chance in the daytime if you are black.


Do you even know what you are talking about here?

And I don't recall discussing Jason's second chance with you. Just that you were dishonest or ill-informed about the lack of black voices in the brief history of all-sports talk radio in Chicago.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I'd fire the agent who negotiated a contract where doing a talk show can get me fired for cause.


This.

And also, There is a recourse.

You lose your show.


I guess I am surprised that hosts are granted as much freedom to talk about what they want in an era where stations do not have the cash to pay hosts to not talk.

Also, journalists with far more experience and credibility than Goff have been fired for sourcing errors. Dan Rather comes to mind, but there have been several others. Goff claimed that black athletes were going to boycott NFL games last season. I believe he backtracked that one, but he's been wrong on all of his insider basketball reports as well.

Guess CBS isn't going to play hardball with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:12 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Guess CBS isn't going to play hardball with him.

Why would they? They don't even own the station. You're making a great attempt at being wrong many times in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Infinity Broadcasting, also not putting the screws to Jason Goff.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Infinity Broadcasting, also not putting the screws to Jason Goff.


Has NPR told him that he can't appear on Fox News?

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:24 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I'd be surprised if he doesn't go full on martyr, and try to become a "justice" speaker/radio host. Shaun King has built a nice career out of it, and Jason is actually black and now has a story about being fired for his convictions.
Interesting post given how offended you seemed to get when I pointed out the unlikliness of a second chance in the daytime if you are black.


Do you even know what you are talking about here?

And I don't recall discussing Jason's second chance with you. Just that you were dishonest or ill-informed about the lack of black voices in the brief history of all-sports talk radio in Chicago.

It was not dishonest, and outside of not knowing that Norm Van Lier was on the radio at one point though no one knows exactly when it wasn't ill-informed.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I'd be surprised if he doesn't go full on martyr, and try to become a "justice" speaker/radio host. Shaun King has built a nice career out of it, and Jason is actually black and now has a story about being fired for his convictions.
Interesting post given how offended you seemed to get when I pointed out the unlikliness of a second chance in the daytime if you are black.


Do you even know what you are talking about here?

And I don't recall discussing Jason's second chance with you. Just that you were dishonest or ill-informed about the lack of black voices in the brief history of all-sports talk radio in Chicago.

It was not dishonest, and outside of not knowing that Norm Van Lier was on the radio at one point though no one knows exactly when it wasn't ill-informed.


It was dishonest because you used a very narrow set of data points to prove a lack of black voices. Something that is subjective anyway to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Guess CBS isn't going to play hardball with him.

Why would they? They don't even own the station. You're making a great attempt at being wrong many times in this thread.


Thanks bag. I will run my posts past you first.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:11 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I'd fire the agent who negotiated a contract where doing a talk show can get me fired for cause.


This.

And also, There is a recourse.

You lose your show.


I guess I am surprised that hosts are granted as much freedom to talk about what they want in an era where stations do not have the cash to pay hosts to not talk.

Also, journalists with far more experience and credibility than Goff have been fired for sourcing errors. Dan Rather comes to mind, but there have been several others. Goff claimed that black athletes were going to boycott NFL games last season. I believe he backtracked that one, but he's been wrong on all of his insider basketball reports as well.

Guess CBS isn't going to play hardball with him.


Smaller markets have far less freedom.

I had one PD walk into a studio and demand that I do something on a show I was producing. He was told no and he left.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:15 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It was dishonest because you used a very narrow set of data points to prove a lack of black voices. Something that is subjective anyway to say the least.
It wasn't a very narrow set of data points. It was literally all black hosts in the 25+ year history of Chicago sports radio during the day which is by far more important than nights and weekends based on everything that is ever posted about ratings.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:18 pm 
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I have a simple question. If a program director can’t tell a program what to do what is their purpose?

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:24 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I have a simple question. If a program director can’t tell a program what to do what is their purpose?


A question OFTEN asked by talent.

They have a lot more say at ESPN then they do at The Score. But in the end, ratings and revenue keep you employed unless you are determined to be fired.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I have a simple question. If a program director can’t tell a program what to do what is their purpose?


A question OFTEN asked by talent.

They have a lot more say at ESPN then they do at The Score. But in the end, ratings and revenue keep you employed unless you are determined to be fired.


Sure but as in your ESPN/Disney example many talkers are not permitted to say many things. Not everyone is Stern to Pig Vomit.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It was dishonest because you used a very narrow set of data points to prove a lack of black voices. Something that is subjective anyway to say the least.
It wasn't a very narrow set of data points. It was literally all black hosts in the 25+ year history of Chicago sports radio during the day which is by far more important than nights and weekends based on everything that is ever posted about ratings.


And I've said there have been at most 10 open seats during the 20 years or so of two stations based on that criteria. Goff, Holmes and Hood have all gotten shots. Jiggetts and Van Lier were on for multiple years. There were plenty of white guys who washed out during this time as well. I would say the story is more don't go into radio rather than black guys can't catch a break when one of the most successful has been Dan Jiggetts.

It's a lazy argument to claim racial bias has prevented black men from having success in sports radio in this market absent any other evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:41 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It was dishonest because you used a very narrow set of data points to prove a lack of black voices. Something that is subjective anyway to say the least.
It wasn't a very narrow set of data points. It was literally all black hosts in the 25+ year history of Chicago sports radio during the day which is by far more important than nights and weekends based on everything that is ever posted about ratings.


And I've said there have been at most 10 open seats during the 20 years or so of two stations based on that criteria. Goff, Holmes and Hood have all gotten shots. Jiggetts and Van Lier were on for multiple years. There were plenty of white guys who washed out during this time as well. I would say the story is more don't go into radio rather than black guys can't catch a break when one of the most successful has been Dan Jiggetts.

It's a lazy argument to claim racial bias has prevented black men from having success in sports radio in this market absent any other evidence.


If there has been at most 10 open seats during the 20 years or so, Carmen has filled one on at least 3 separate occasions.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:44 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I have a simple question. If a program director can’t tell a program what to do what is their purpose?


A question OFTEN asked by talent.

They have a lot more say at ESPN then they do at The Score. But in the end, ratings and revenue keep you employed unless you are determined to be fired.


Sure but as in your ESPN/Disney example many talkers are not permitted to say many things. Not everyone is Stern to Pig Vomit.


As CH often says, that is due to the growing influence of corporate radio.

But, had B&G done more than just treat people like shit who disagree with them, or talk down to them, or just invite them to leave, their show would still be together.

Radio is in a tough spot. It's why the Wisemen have hired Radio Programmer to look into the whole podcast thing. We are going to be a destination site for sports talk in the very near future.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It was dishonest because you used a very narrow set of data points to prove a lack of black voices. Something that is subjective anyway to say the least.
It wasn't a very narrow set of data points. It was literally all black hosts in the 25+ year history of Chicago sports radio during the day which is by far more important than nights and weekends based on everything that is ever posted about ratings.


And I've said there have been at most 10 open seats during the 20 years or so of two stations based on that criteria. Goff, Holmes and Hood have all gotten shots. Jiggetts and Van Lier were on for multiple years. There were plenty of white guys who washed out during this time as well. I would say the story is more don't go into radio rather than black guys can't catch a break when one of the most successful has been Dan Jiggetts.

It's a lazy argument to claim racial bias has prevented black men from having success in sports radio in this market absent any other evidence.


If there has been at most 10 open seats during the 20 years or so, Carmen has filled one on at least 3 separate occasions.


I've never listened to Carmen for any amount of significant time to say with authority, but being forgettable nice guy is a nice way to avoid controversy.

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