A dominant starter vs. a prospect.

But yea, Sale did well for Boston last year.

0-2 8.38 era in playoffs.

and look at how much the Red Sox valued a non dominant starting pitcher...Cubs did as well.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

and look at how much the Red Sox valued a non dominant starting pitcher...Cubs did as well.[/quote]
Do you think the value of starters has not taken a hit in this era of bullpenning?

Do you think the value of starters has not taken a hit in this era of bullpenning?[/quote]

Apparently not based on trades, FA and drafting

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Unless you got a HoF player in return you weren't going to get equal value for Chris Sale. I completely understand that. However when I see 2 guys that the Sox could have gotten at the 2016 deadline looking like future studs for the Red Sox it pisses me off. The rebuild would be over if we make that trade.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Is Sale a Hall of Fame player?

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10 more pages

I think so. At worst he's borderline. He's been a top 5 to 10 pitcher for a long time. Besides his salary added to his value. Guys that pitch like him make triple his salary.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Rondon is looking like one.

At 92 wins?

The problem was, at the time of the trade, Moncada might have been the #1 prospect in all of baseball, but that is because a bunch of studs had just graduated to the minors. Internally, I don't think the BoSox ever REALLY ranked him above Benintendi their true prize. Also much of Yoan's stock was a projection as a decent fielding SS or really good second baseman, if the glove isn't really good, yeah, it was a very light return for Chris Sale.

Different era.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I am not saying a pitcher has to have 300 wins to enter, but 92 is not gonna cut it. If he retires after this season and notches 110 wins in total, still not a HOF pitcher.

Well of course not. The belief is that he'll continue being an elite pitcher for at least another 5 years.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Right.

Of course he's a future HOFer barring injury.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

All you have to say is HOF caliber and you’ll avoid any misunderstandings.

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I understand the idea of being patient with Kopech and Moncada but it’s unlikely this trade will ever justify itself.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Apparently not based on trades, FA and drafting[/quote]
Oh, yea, starting pitchers did GREAT in Free Agency this year.

And half the pitchers drafted in the first round will end up in the bullpen anyway. I just don't understand your refusal to acknowledge the obvious change that's been going on.

It's called "denial."

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That's what we all thought about Johan Santana

I disagree. What were they doing with Sale? Staying around .500?

Oh, yea, starting pitchers did GREAT in Free Agency this year.

And half the pitchers drafted in the first round will end up in the bullpen anyway. I just don't understand your refusal to acknowledge the obvious change that's been going on.[/quote]

"The change" that has been here since Tony LaRussa started managing?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Moncada isn't very good is he?

I think we are seeing his floor right now, which isn't horrible. I'm looking for a lot more than not horrible from him.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

"The change" that has been here since Tony LaRussa started managing?[/quote]
Ok, so you are officially ignoring numbers now. LaRussa's method was the norm for about 25 years, now there has been a giant step forward from that.

Starters are throwing a wayyyyy smaller percentage of the game then ever before and that is even more pronounced in post season.

You are essentially arguing that starters throwing 5 innings are as important as they were when they threw 7.

I'm arguing that the markets seem to be bearing out that opinion.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

What? Moncada has been horrible at the plate the last few games.

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24 K's in 49 at bats so far this season.

This better be his floor. And it is by definition, "horrible."

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Moncada is concerning to be sure.

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Elections have consequences.

Does anyone know if he is swinging on the last pitch of the strikeout? I guess I am wondering if he trying to walk at all.