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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:24 pm 
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I got sa feeling Trump does not know when attack is gonna kick off. Remember he just tells Mattis what needs done and lets Mad Dog get it done. I got a feeling he is waiting for one of the SSGN to get in position.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Fears of war have reached new heights over Syria as the US President is considering launching a military strike against dictator Bashar al-Assad.

Russia’s ambassador to Lebanon – Alexander Zasypkin – cited Putin and Russia’s top generals as he claimed Moscow will not allow the US to attack Syria.

He outright threatened Russian forces would shoot down US missiles, as well as striking the “source”.

This could refer to US military bases, US warships in the Mediterranean, or US warplanes launched from nearby bases in the Middle East.

Putin is Assad's main ally and it is feared a strike on Syria could spill over into war with Russia.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:52 pm 
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Source?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Source?

Apparently https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/695151/russia-syria-us-vladimir-putin-missile-assad-shoot-down-world-war-3-chemical-douma ... fells like a tabloid to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:

I have faith that Vladimir Putin is more responsible than the President of the United States.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Cool, stupid war in the Middle East. Maybe Hillary Clinton won the election after all.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Is Outkast still around?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:25 pm 
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You guys watching Oogie's map? Stuff happening. Trump talked to President for Life Erdogan today.
Russia's decrepit Navy making moves.

CNN's got this I'm sure.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Cheap Charlie wrote:
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:08 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Cheap Charlie wrote:
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Say, did you see that Apple has Isaac Asimov's books in TV development?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
I'm sure we've made great strides in accuracy and intelligence in the 2 weeks since we blew up Mosul.

edit: oh, it was 50 missiles shot at an empty airfield or something. That should help.


Four years ago: "Denying strategic assets is good!"

Today: "Denying strategic assets is pointless!"

Wha' happen?


Russia can sell them some replacement planes now. Everybody wins.


They'd be selling them 70's Sukhoi technology obviated by the military technological advancement of the 80's, 90's, and 00's.

The United States sells Israel stealth fighters and F/A-18 Hornets.

Wha' happen?

Being pendantic here, but Israel has the F-15 and F-16 but not the Hornet. The F-15s and F-16s they have are basically the airframes from the US, but everything else is stripped down and replaced with Israeli parts.


I thought they'd gotten the F-18? Regardless, the F-15 outclasses the Sukhoi shit the Russians sell to everyone else, not to mention the superiority of the 50 F-35's the Israelis seem to have procured from the ether.



Dunno...WVR Flanker and Eagle is a push

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:53 pm 
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entr0py wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I thought they'd gotten the F-18? Regardless, the F-15 outclasses the Sukhoi shit the Russians sell to everyone else, not to mention the superiority of the 50 F-35's the Israelis seem to have procured from the ether.



Dunno...WVR Flanker and Eagle is a push

US tactics for the F-15 would be to engage BVR. That's why the USAF utilizes the E-3 and would try to engage Fox 3 with AMRAAM's.

IAF tactics on the other hand have always been geared more towards dogfighting. They have the equipment for BVR, but their doctrine has always been for the use of IR guided missiles (they developed the Python for this) at closer range. It's riskier, but I'd say their history has given them no reason to abandon this doctrine. The last time they went into a major AA conflict, they took out nearly 100 Syrian jets without a single loss.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
entr0py wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I thought they'd gotten the F-18? Regardless, the F-15 outclasses the Sukhoi shit the Russians sell to everyone else, not to mention the superiority of the 50 F-35's the Israelis seem to have procured from the ether.



Dunno...WVR Flanker and Eagle is a push

US tactics for the F-15 would be to engage BVR. That's why the USAF utilizes the E-3 and would try to engage Fox 3 with AMRAAM's.

IAF tactics on the other hand have always been geared more towards dogfighting. They have the equipment for BVR, but their doctrine has always been for the use of IR guided missiles (they developed the Python for this) at closer range. It's riskier, but I'd say their history has given them no reason to abandon this doctrine. The last time they went into a major AA conflict, they took out nearly 100 Syrian jets without a single loss.


They still have A-4 and F-4 in reserve. They throw nothing out

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:14 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
entr0py wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I thought they'd gotten the F-18? Regardless, the F-15 outclasses the Sukhoi shit the Russians sell to everyone else, not to mention the superiority of the 50 F-35's the Israelis seem to have procured from the ether.



Dunno...WVR Flanker and Eagle is a push

US tactics for the F-15 would be to engage BVR. That's why the USAF utilizes the E-3 and would try to engage Fox 3 with AMRAAM's.

IAF tactics on the other hand have always been geared more towards dogfighting. They have the equipment for BVR, but their doctrine has always been for the use of IR guided missiles (they developed the Python for this) at closer range. It's riskier, but I'd say their history has given them no reason to abandon this doctrine. The last time they went into a major AA conflict, they took out nearly 100 Syrian jets without a single loss.


They still have A-4 and F-4 in reserve. They throw nothing out

They were using those aircraft (in reserve roles) as of a decade ago, but they are now no longer on the reserve inventory.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:55 pm 
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wanna bet?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
wanna bet?

I know for a fact they have been retired.

http://www.iaf.org.il/4428-45751-en/IAF.aspx

The F-4s were retired even earlier than this as the A-4s were kept as trainers until this final retirement.

I literally lived there and used to visit bases when they would open them up every year on Independence Day (Yom Ha'atzmaut) as part of the celebrations. Israel has even retired the A/B models of the F-16 so they aren't keeping these aircraft around forever.

I think Turkey and Iran are the last air forces still flying the F-4.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:14 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
wanna bet?

ScoreKirk wrote:
Name the steaks.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
wanna bet?

I know for a fact they have been retired.

http://www.iaf.org.il/4428-45751-en/IAF.aspx

The F-4s were retired even earlier than this as the A-4s were kept as trainers until this final retirement.

I literally lived there and used to visit bases when they would open them up every year on Independence Day (Yom Ha'atzmaut) as part of the celebrations. Israel has even retired the A/B models of the F-16 so they aren't keeping these aircraft around forever.

I think Turkey and Iran are the last air forces still flying the F-4.


Military Balance 21016 still lists them ,they are regarded as being the premiere go to guide .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:37 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
wanna bet?

I know for a fact they have been retired.

http://www.iaf.org.il/4428-45751-en/IAF.aspx

The F-4s were retired even earlier than this as the A-4s were kept as trainers until this final retirement.

I literally lived there and used to visit bases when they would open them up every year on Independence Day (Yom Ha'atzmaut) as part of the celebrations. Israel has even retired the A/B models of the F-16 so they aren't keeping these aircraft around forever.

I think Turkey and Iran are the last air forces still flying the F-4.


Military Balance 21016 still lists them ,they are regarded as being the premiere go to guide .

well Military Balance is incorrect. I can say definitively that neither the F-4 nor the A-4 are flying in the IAF, even as reserve aircraft.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Loser leaves the board?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
wanna bet?

I know for a fact they have been retired.

http://www.iaf.org.il/4428-45751-en/IAF.aspx

The F-4s were retired even earlier than this as the A-4s were kept as trainers until this final retirement.

I literally lived there and used to visit bases when they would open them up every year on Independence Day (Yom Ha'atzmaut) as part of the celebrations. Israel has even retired the A/B models of the F-16 so they aren't keeping these aircraft around forever.

I think Turkey and Iran are the last air forces still flying the F-4.


Military Balance 21016 still lists them ,they are regarded as being the premiere go to guide .

well Military Balance is incorrect. I can say definitively that neither the F-4 nor the A-4 are flying in the IAF, even as reserve aircraft.

you write them and tell them they are incorrect lol

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
entr0py wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I thought they'd gotten the F-18? Regardless, the F-15 outclasses the Sukhoi shit the Russians sell to everyone else, not to mention the superiority of the 50 F-35's the Israelis seem to have procured from the ether.



Dunno...WVR Flanker and Eagle is a push

US tactics for the F-15 would be to engage BVR. That's why the USAF utilizes the E-3 and would try to engage Fox 3 with AMRAAM's.

IAF tactics on the other hand have always been geared more towards dogfighting. They have the equipment for BVR, but their doctrine has always been for the use of IR guided missiles (they developed the Python for this) at closer range. It's riskier, but I'd say their history has given them no reason to abandon this doctrine. The last time they went into a major AA conflict, they took out nearly 100 Syrian jets without a single loss.



Yes...USAF doctrine is heavily biased toward BVR, I was speaking to the basic competiveness of the Flanker(SU27) airframe. IDF success Is mostly attributable to superior piloting. Put a good man with some guts and some good training in a Flanker and it cannot be overlooked

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Yup just look at the Poles until they switched

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Loser leaves the board?


:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:26 am 
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Quote:
AP Politics
‏@AP_Politics

BREAKING: The Russian military says that an alleged chemical attack in Syria was staged and directed by Britain.
9:55 AM - 13 Apr 2018


This should end well.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:36 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Quote:
AP Politics
‏@AP_Politics

BREAKING: The Russian military says that an alleged chemical attack in Syria was staged and directed by Britain.
9:55 AM - 13 Apr 2018


This should end well.


I'm sure that JORR believes this.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Today's NSC meeting is at the deputy level, which is indicative that a decision has been made and the deputies are ironing out the specific details.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:09 pm 
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-sets ... 1523611801


Talking to Pentagon officials after the apparent gas attack, Mr. Trump called for a more sweeping retaliatory response than the military advised, one White House official said. He asked to consider options that would punish not only the Syrian regime but also two of its sponsors—Russia and Iran. “He’s pressed back” on suggestions from Defense Secretary Jim Mattis that the response should be more limited in scope, the official said.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Hanging Mad Dog out to dry.

SAD.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:15 pm 
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So pretty much, Mattis is stressing caution, and I really can't blame him. There are just too many ways a strike can go wrong here with a volatile and unpredictable Russia. I'd be curious what the British and French think as they seem to be in favor of strikes, but I haven't seen any reports on how far they think such strikes should go. I get the feeling that the British see this as a chance to hit back at Russia for what was pretty much a chemical weapons attack on their own soil last month.

I'd trust the man who has seen the consequences of war in this situation.

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