Since we supposedly can't do without reposts of Julie DiCaro tweets for 24 hours, let's move it here!



JORR is becoming a "back in my day, the men were men!" guy in front of our own eyes!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You can make all the laws you want. You can't change nature.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

But you can change your gender!

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Chus and I do a majority of the childcare. How do we handle it?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

was there a question in all this?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

No.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I didn't say you couldn't. And the companies that don't have you or Chus in their C-suites aren't fucking you guys. You made the choice. And I don't see anyone putting on a pussy hat and demanding you guys get paid more.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Day drinking?

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Chus is doing just fine. You, not so sure.

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Elections have consequences.

I don't understand your point then about "nature".

Of course I'm not going to run a company with this situation unless I start it myself. What does that have to do with anything?

Why should my wife have it held against her that she had a kid?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You seem to handle it by getting your human argument interactions on here.

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Yeah, pretty much true.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Because in a broader sense, having a kid is just one way people differentiate themselves with respect to their priorities. Some people's idea of a fun weekend is taking apart circuit boards and building fiber networks, while some prefer to play sports in their spare time. When it comes to hiring one of them for an IT position, who is going to have the edge? It doesn't mean the sports person doesn't have the potential to be just as good. But his priorities are different.

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I will put on a train engine hat and march for Brick if necessary.

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Why don't fathers get the same stigma then?

The whole concept here is that we are talking about a woman who does the required hours to be full time too.

And, as someone who works in IT, you would rather not have someone who does IT work as a hobby at home. Trust me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nobody is holding anything against anyone for having a kid. Somebody has to take care of a kid. It's either you, your wife, or someone else.

You don't make as much as Carly Fiorina or Meg Whitman. If you insist that your baby comes first- which is fine, by the way- you're not going to make as much as they do. The fact is that for every aggressive woman like Sheryl Sandberg there are at least 100 men trying to get to the same place. More women want to take care of their babies.

Do you think men are more violent than women? Is saying so sexist? We're doing an experiment right now trying to raise boys like girls, drugging them up, punishing them for their inherent nature. We'll see how that turns out down the road. I'm guessing not well.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Nope. Men and women are exactly the same. Except, of course, for men's overwhelming tendency to murder people. But other than that very minor detail, exactly the same!

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You do have the stigma. You just admitted that doing what you want, the only way you could run shit would be to start your own firm. That isn't anyone holding you back. It's you making a choice. And it's a choice that is made by far more women than men. You can argue that that's a societal construct rather than nature if you want. I'll disagree.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

My wife still dealt with plenty of that stuff though.

If the situation was reversed, I would not have. If he was in day care, I wouldn't. That's the point.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I doubt she is. If a professional female has a baby and takes 8 weeks off then hands things over to dad or nanny I doubt there is any retribution in any way. It is illegal.

Where pay gaps may come in are the "differences" that get discussed or "other factors".

In just one example, take two people one male and one female. They are hired as a team and work in the same company doing the same tasks. They have identical educations up to and including MBAs. After working like this at a high level for the company (which involves a very quickly evolving technological field) for 8 years the female becomes pregnant by plan and has a child. She takes the 8 weeks off then chooses though to take another 2 years off to tend to her child and bond etc...

The company has no problem with this. The man continues to work and excel.

She returns and has been given her old job and old pay. The male has been advanced as he kept pace and excelled and makes 20% more now.

Where is the problem that could not be misconstrued as a gender wage gap?

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Elections have consequences.

Right. But to assume men fall into the "productive" category is sexist.

After the child is born, the parenting burden is equal between both the father and the mother unless they decide otherwise. I know it sounds crazy!

The person who takes on more of the child care responsibilities will lose some of the edge in the professional realm.


It may be a man or a woman.

Regardless of what you think should happen or happened in the past, that is all we are dealing with.

The assumption that woman will be the one taking on more childcare responsibility is a problem.

It's all worth it when Rick comes out in that little sun dress on a Friday night.

I think we are more focused on people forced into a situation rather than what comes naturally. There are plenty of men that are naturally nurturing. Alternatively, there are plenty of women who only use the child as a prop for Facebook pictures before they go out to day drink prosecco.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Exactly. It's not as if men don't fuck around on the job, slack off, take "sick" days, etc.

I understand a small business looking at 2 candidates for a job and hiring the man over the woman based on nothing but the idea that she may want to have kids and need time off. But I recognize it as sexist and being discriminatory.

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I'm not going to lay it out in a forum like this but there were issues with other potential employers at the time of her interviews when looking for a new job. It was so common that we actually rehearsed ways to answer subtle questions that they couldn't legally ask. That was one of the reasons she took the job she did because it wasn't an issue.
They look at years of experience when trying to come up with more accurate information and still find a gap.

Of course if you take 2 years off to raise a kid you are going to get passed up. This isn't really all that common these days unless it's just a case where daycare is so expensive it doesn't make sense to work.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think we all agree that's an assumption that should not be made.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's where we were in the other thread last night.

Not everybody agrees with our thoughts.

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Not sure everyone agrees. It seems like some people are defending the right to make that assumption.

It was fully admitted in the JDC thread. badrogue even threw his own wife out there as an example.

However, the younger generation is changing this. A few guys in my neighborhood telecommute and can handle more of the "productivity killing" tasks like taking a sick kid to a doctor.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!