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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:55 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
McDude wrote:
Moncada isn't very good is he?


I think we are seeing his floor right now, which isn't horrible. I'm looking for a lot more than not horrible from him.


His last three games is 1-12 with 9 strikeouts.

What would be horrible?


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 am 
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juschill wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
McDude wrote:
Moncada isn't very good is he?


I think we are seeing his floor right now, which isn't horrible. I'm looking for a lot more than not horrible from him.


His last three games is 1-12 with 9 strikeouts.

What would be horrible?


I guess I have to define what I meant by right now for you people and yes I mean you people: I do not mean the present game you are watching or the last homestand, I mean his present, undeveloped state from the time he was brought up to MLB a grand total of 66 games ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:18 am 
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Remember when....aw forget it.


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:22 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
juschill wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
McDude wrote:
Moncada isn't very good is he?


I think we are seeing his floor right now, which isn't horrible. I'm looking for a lot more than not horrible from him.


His last three games is 1-12 with 9 strikeouts.

What would be horrible?


I guess I have to define what I meant by right now for you people and yes I mean you people: I do not mean the present game you are watching or the last homestand, I mean his present, undeveloped state from the time he was brought up to MLB a grand total of 66 games ago.


So you think a career (74 games) of .221 average, 9hr's and 26rbi's with 110K's in 267 AB and 3 steals is not horrible? :lol:

You must think this guy is an all-star: at age 22 (69 games) .246 average, 16hr's and 43rbi's with 77K's 3 steals.





Kyle Schwarber


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I do not mean the present game you are watching or the last homestand, I mean his present, undeveloped state from the time he was brought up to MLB a grand total of 66 games ago.
You also said that his present state was "not horrible," which is incorrect.

Earlier in the thread, I commented about how Moncada is 21 years old and even if that means he really is 23 or 24, there is still lots of time for him to develop. Not striking out in half of his at bats would be a good place to start improvement.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:33 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do not mean the present game you are watching or the last homestand, I mean his present, undeveloped state from the time he was brought up to MLB a grand total of 66 games ago.
You also said that his present state was "not horrible," which is incorrect.

Earlier in the thread, I commented about how Moncada is 21 years old and even if that means he really is 23 or 24, there is still lots of time for him to develop. Not striking out in half of his at bats would be a good place to start improvement.


When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate. Having him struggle like he is hurts the confidence in the rebuild. You shouldn't be hoping his ceiling this year is Baez :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:39 am 
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Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:45 am 
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Juiced wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
juschill wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
McDude wrote:
Moncada isn't very good is he?


I think we are seeing his floor right now, which isn't horrible. I'm looking for a lot more than not horrible from him.


His last three games is 1-12 with 9 strikeouts.

What would be horrible?


I guess I have to define what I meant by right now for you people and yes I mean you people: I do not mean the present game you are watching or the last homestand, I mean his present, undeveloped state from the time he was brought up to MLB a grand total of 66 games ago.


So you think a career (74 games) of .221 average, 9hr's and 26rbi's with 110K's in 267 AB and 3 steals is not horrible? :lol:

You must think this guy is an all-star: at age 22 (69 games) .246 average, 16hr's and 43rbi's with 77K's 3 steals.





Kyle Schwarber


Schwarbs had a monument built to him within that time frame.

Also, you snuck in his boston stats.

His lone extended period season produced a .338 OBP and .750 OPS. Not horrible.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:06 am 
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Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.
If he is good when the Sox are a playoff team, that is what matters. The main cogs of the Sale trade were two twenty year old players. There is going to be some development time with them. "K.Bryant" played his first full season in the big leagues at age 23. Let's revisit this in two/three seasons when Moncada and Kopech are that age.

Juiced wrote:
Having him struggle like he is hurts the confidence in the rebuild.
No, it doesn't really.

Juiced wrote:
You shouldn't be hoping his ceiling this year is Baez
I'm hoping he becomes a lot better player than Baez.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:12 am 
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He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:13 am 
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Durham's first full season in the bigs was also at age 23.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:15 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham


You joke but that is probably right.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:17 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham



If I could lock him in as Ray Durham right now I'd do it in a split second and sign him for ten years.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:18 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham



If I could lock him in as Ray Durham right now I'd do it in a split second and sign him for ten years.

I meant that for both of them too .

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:18 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham



If I could lock him in as Ray Durham right now I'd do it in a split second and sign him for ten years.


Yeah I was saying to myself "is that supposed to be a knock"?

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:20 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham



If I could lock him in as Ray Durham right now I'd do it in a split second and sign him for ten years.


Yeah I was saying to myself "is that supposed to be a knock"?



Ray Durham is a guy who if he had played his career for the Cubs there would be discussion on this board about whether he's a Hall of Famer.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:21 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham


Ray Durham fan. Believe it or not I was a big fan of the 90's Sox.


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:23 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham



If I could lock him in as Ray Durham right now I'd do it in a split second and sign him for ten years.


Yeah I was saying to myself "is that supposed to be a knock"?

Well without looking up his stats and going on what you traded to get him and the hype surrounding him I’m guessing that most people would expect him to be better than Durham.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:23 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
He’ll be lucky to have the career of Ray Durham



If I could lock him in as Ray Durham right now I'd do it in a split second and sign him for ten years.


Yeah I was saying to myself "is that supposed to be a knock"?



Ray Durham is a guy who if he had played his career for the Cubs there would be discussion on this board about whether he's a Hall of Famer.


:lol: Probably

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:24 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.

I would have more faith in Moncada's development if the White Sox didn't have a recent history of being utterly clueless in developing position players.


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:31 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.


You need fans and players to buy into the rebuild. If your prospects keep shitting the bed, then fans will get impatient, management will second guess themselves, free-agents won't want to come here and your rebuild will FAIL.


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:32 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.

I would have more faith in Moncada's development if the White Sox didn't have a recent history of being utterly clueless in developing position players.

Eh. The development part is pretty much over. It’s on him now to figure it out. I think he will but it’s going to take longer than most expected.


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:34 am 
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looking like a guy who'll hit .220 for a few years and then really break-out when he becomes FA eligible.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:37 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.

I would have more faith in Moncada's development if the White Sox didn't have a recent history of being utterly clueless in developing position players.


This


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:49 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.

I would have more faith in Moncada's development if the White Sox didn't have a recent history of being utterly clueless in developing position players.

Eh. The development part is pretty much over. It’s on him now to figure it out. I think he will but it’s going to take longer than most expected.


That would be my point. The Sox may not develop well but a stud should be a stud. In other words, the Cubs did not develop Bryant.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:59 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
When you trade a pitcher like Sale you need him to be K.Bryant good out of the gate.

No. You don’t. You need him to be good when the team is ready to win.

I would have more faith in Moncada's development if the White Sox didn't have a recent history of being utterly clueless in developing position players.



Does that change with Getz? Does Getz, get the job done?


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:13 am 
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mrs. getz does


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Cashman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I understand the idea of being patient with Kopech and Moncada but it’s unlikely this trade will ever justify itself.



I disagree. What were they doing with Sale? Staying around .500?

That's not Sale's fault. That's management's fault. The same management everyone is praising for this rebuild. It's absolutely ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:28 pm 
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McDude wrote:
Moncada isn't very good is he?


3 home runs since this post!


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 Post subject: Re: Chris Sale Trade
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Not horrible

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