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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:51 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Eventually, I think Moncada will be the better player.



I'm not sure what makes you say that. I'd be pretty happy if Moncada were Baez. But he's a totally different kind of player. He doesn't really have a position. Yeah, I think he will walk more than Baez. But that doesn't excite me.

I trust the projections and he's still very young. Not ready to say he is what he is after 308 mlb at bats.

3 time All Star Anthony Rizzo was horrible in his first 2-300 at bats, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:53 am 
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Juiced wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Yeah. Hopefully the White Sox young player ends up pretty good too. Great thread.


The point is you need an All-Star player when you trade a player like Sale. Not "pretty good" Baez :lol:

I would be ripping Theo apart if he traded Sale for Moncada and a gimmick pitcher.
What you don't seem to get is that the White Sox weren't going to get meaningful contributions from Chris Sale as soon as they figured out that in baseball you have to tank for many years to rebuild. If the White Sox had Chris Sale now what exactly are they doing?

Of course you want Moncada to become a hall of famer. In any trade for a young player you realize that it may end up not working out.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:54 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Yeah. Hopefully the White Sox young player ends up pretty good too. Great thread.


The point is you need an All-Star player when you trade a player like Sale. Not "pretty good" Baez :lol:

I would be ripping Theo apart if he traded Sale for Moncada and a gimmick pitcher.
What you don't seem to get is that the White Sox weren't going to get meaningful contributions from Chris Sale

That doesn't really affect his value to the other teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:56 am 
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Nas wrote:
Baez has grown on me but I can't imagine wanting him as the centerpiece of a trade for Chris Sale.


This guy gets it. Wake up Sox fans!

Your all-star farm team is made up of players Hahn traded for. His draft picks are not that great.

Anderson
Rodon
Fulmer
Collins
Burdi
Burger

Who out of that list is K.Bryant level? Hell who is Rizzo level that he trade for?

It is early, but your rebuild is pointing the same way as your field.
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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:56 am 
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Baez is on track for a 5-6 fWAR season so the bar for Moncada is PRETTY, PRETTY, PRETTY, PRETTY, high.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Yeah. Hopefully the White Sox young player ends up pretty good too. Great thread.


The point is you need an All-Star player when you trade a player like Sale. Not "pretty good" Baez :lol:

I would be ripping Theo apart if he traded Sale for Moncada and a gimmick pitcher.
What you don't seem to get is that the White Sox weren't going to get meaningful contributions from Chris Sale as soon as they figured out that in baseball you have to tank for many years to rebuild. If the White Sox had Chris Sale now what exactly are they doing?

Of course you want Moncada to become a hall of famer. In any trade for a young player you realize that it may end up not working out.


This is why Benintendi PLUS should have been where things started. Benintendi had already proven he could play at this level. Devers would have likely been the 2nd choice because solving 3rd base has be a problem since JOE CREDE.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:59 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Eventually, I think Moncada will be the better player.



I'm not sure what makes you say that. I'd be pretty happy if Moncada were Baez. But he's a totally different kind of player. He doesn't really have a position. Yeah, I think he will walk more than Baez. But that doesn't excite me.

I trust the projections and he's still very young. Not ready to say he is what he is after 308 mlb at bats.

3 time All Star Anthony Rizzo was horrible in his first 2-300 at bats, too.


No, not horrible. At age 22 he had a .285 average and at age 23 had 23HR and 80RBI's.

Not all-star, but not bad like you said.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:03 am 
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Juiced wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Eventually, I think Moncada will be the better player.



I'm not sure what makes you say that. I'd be pretty happy if Moncada were Baez. But he's a totally different kind of player. He doesn't really have a position. Yeah, I think he will walk more than Baez. But that doesn't excite me.


So you traded the greatest White Sox pitcher of this generation for Baez (you hope) and a guy who will more then likely need Tommy John surgery when the rebuild is finished?


Anthony Rizzo is closer to major back surgery than Kopech is to Tommy John.

This is just more unrealistic Cub fan talk. If the Cubs had traded for Moncada you'd be pointing out how young he is and comparing him to Chipper Jones.


Honestly. What insider information is there that Kopech needs Tommy John? The Cubs aren't playing well so you have find ways to dig at the rebuild?


I don't need to dig the rebuild, the Sox are doing fine doing that themselves.

Kopech has been throwing 90MPH since he was 14! If you don't think he has an increased risk of TJ then you are in denial or just stupid.


Being a talented pitcher at an early age means you need surgery? That's just stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:04 am 
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Moncada's K rate is 39% (86/218)? Holy shit.

Major bust potential here. How is his baseball IQ? I saw he blew that suicide squeeze.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:06 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Yeah. Hopefully the White Sox young player ends up pretty good too. Great thread.


The point is you need an All-Star player when you trade a player like Sale. Not "pretty good" Baez :lol:

I would be ripping Theo apart if he traded Sale for Moncada and a gimmick pitcher.
What you don't seem to get is that the White Sox weren't going to get meaningful contributions from Chris Sale

That doesn't really affect his value to the other teams.
Juiced is making the case that the organization gave up 3 years of Chris Sale. Those 3 years of Chris Sale would have been mostly meaningless the moment they turned out bad.

Imagine if the Sox turned down the trade and kept him for 3 years. What is it like for the White Sox? Maybe next year they are competitive?

It's easy to look at a trade afterwards and think they should have gotten more. Prospects are still lottery tickets. Moncada just had a much higher chance of success.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:48 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Being a talented pitcher at an early age means you need surgery? That's just stupid.


Are you a mult :lol:

Being a talented pitcher that throws 100MPH since his early teens, puts him AT A HIGH RISK for TJ.

Why is this difficult to understand?


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:52 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Yeah. Hopefully the White Sox young player ends up pretty good too. Great thread.


The point is you need an All-Star player when you trade a player like Sale. Not "pretty good" Baez :lol:

I would be ripping Theo apart if he traded Sale for Moncada and a gimmick pitcher.
What you don't seem to get is that the White Sox weren't going to get meaningful contributions from Chris Sale

That doesn't really affect his value to the other teams.
Juiced is making the case that the organization gave up 3 years of Chris Sale. Those 3 years of Chris Sale would have been mostly meaningless the moment they turned out bad.

Imagine if the Sox turned down the trade and kept him for 3 years. What is it like for the White Sox? Maybe next year they are competitive?

It's easy to look at a trade afterwards and think they should have gotten more. Prospects are still lottery tickets. Moncada just had a much higher chance of success.


I am saying they should have gotten more then Moncada and Kopech for Sale. I get that draft picks are lottery tickets, but you don't trade sale for the most tickets in the pick 5. You go balls out and get the most tickets for the MegaMillions!


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Being a talented pitcher at an early age means you need surgery? That's just stupid.


Are you a mult :lol:

Being a talented pitcher that throws 100MPH since his early teens, puts him AT A HIGH RISK for TJ.

Why is this difficult to understand?

It’s difficult to understand because you’re talking out of your ass. I saw him in HS and he was 90-92. The velo jump happened when he was with the Red Sox.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:31 pm 
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The Sox traded Sale for a pitcher who is better than Sale AND got a player being compared to an MVP level player. Sounds like a good trade

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Juiced wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Being a talented pitcher at an early age means you need surgery? That's just stupid.


Are you a mult :lol:

Being a talented pitcher that throws 100MPH since his early teens, puts him AT A HIGH RISK for TJ.

Why is this difficult to understand?

It’s difficult to understand because you’re talking out of your ass. I saw him in HS and he was 90-92. The velo jump happened when he was with the Red Sox.


"Jan 19, 2017 · White Sox Prospect Michael Kopech Throws 110-MPH Fastball On Tuesday, ... And Michael Kopech was the kid who hits 95 as a high school senior."

The jump to 100MPH started when he started taking amphetamines. Was suspended for 50 games in 2014.

You don't think a kid who has been throwing in the 90's since 14 and took amphetamines to help him hit 110MPH is at risk for TJ? What team do you scout for? The Naperville Pony League?


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:36 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
The Sox traded Sale for a pitcher who is better than Sale AND got a player being compared to an MVP level player. Sounds like a good trade


What are you smoking? It must be some good shit! :drunken: :bom:


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:40 pm 
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If Michael Kopech throws one of those 110mph fastballs and Juiced's face, it would make it the best trade in the history of sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
If Michael Kopech throws one of those 110mph fastballs and Juiced's face, it would make it the best trade in the history of sports.


Deflect if you wish. Fact remains that you got f%^$#d in the ass for Sale.

Enjoy the rebuild, all-in, these kids can play, good guys wear black or whatever BS they are pushing. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Ironic that it should be a topic as Sale fell to the Sox in the draft because of opinions that his style would result in the need for surgery that still hasn't materialized.

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Last edited by good dolphin on Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
What team do you scout for? The Naperville Pony League?

I'm fairly certain it's just some local T-Ball league.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
Deflect if you wish. Fact remains that you got f%^$#d in the ass for Sale.

Enjoy the rebuild, all-in, these kids can play, good guys wear black or whatever BS they are pushing. :lol:

#2016
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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Deflect if you wish. Fact remains that you got f%^$#d in the ass for Sale.

Enjoy the rebuild, all-in, these kids can play, good guys wear black or whatever BS they are pushing. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:39 pm 
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108 years.

#2005

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
108 years.

#2005



978 fools

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
108 years.

#2005

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Eventually, I think Moncada will be the better player.



I'm not sure what makes you say that. I'd be pretty happy if Moncada were Baez. But he's a totally different kind of player. He doesn't really have a position. Yeah, I think he will walk more than Baez. But that doesn't excite me.

I trust the projections and he's still very young. Not ready to say he is what he is after 308 mlb at bats.

3 time All Star Anthony Rizzo was horrible in his first 2-300 at bats, too.


No, not horrible. At age 22 he had a .285 average and at age 23 had 23HR and 80RBI's.

Not all-star, but not bad like you said.

Run his first 308 abs into the old sports machine and get back to me.

Didn't say his first 500.


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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Baez .190
Moncada .184

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
Fact remains that you got f%^$#d in the ass for Sale.

This is a really dumb statement.

The trade cannot be evaluated until the 2020 season. Absolutely correct that Moncada hasn't proved to be worth much of anything yet, but it's not over. Nor is he the only player in the trade. it's possible that the trade yielded a Baez comparable player and a valuable pitcher....THAT makes the trade pretty damn good. Too soon to tell.

calling things "facts" right now is pure idiocy.

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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Baez vs Moncada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Baez is the Cubs best SS, 2nd baseman and 3rd baseman. He hit for a good average last season, even if some want to still think of him as hitting for a low average and striking out a ton. That is just not really the case anymore. He lays off a lot more of the pitches out of the zone and hammers those in it at a great rate. Great base runner too. He's a cornerstone.

I like Moncada, but like Baez he may take a little while to reach his full potential.

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