Samardiza blows, always has..not a good comp to Quintana at all.

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The comp is that GMs value(d) him based upon his ancillary numbers rather than his well-established W/L record and assume that his W/L record will be better on a "good team". The thing they miss is that good teams are usually good because they have good pitchers, not Jeff Samardzijas.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

He'll be "fine" if a .500 record is "fine".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You pulled a 180 when he was pitching great. It was really odd. If you had waited until last season I could understand. He was AWFUL before the trade.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Because I had seen enough of him pitching "great" and losing the game. Wins have been hard to come by the last few years for the White Sox. As I would read what JOrr and Peeps were saying about Q, then I would watch him go out and fairly regular piss away leads that the Sox would give him, I realized that those guys were right and I was wrong.

I'm not rooting against Quintana. I like him and hope he succeeds, but I've seen enough of him to know that he probably won't.

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He didn't have good ancillary numbers though. He was like the guy who signed with Arizona a couple of years ago. He could have an amazing outing but was generally mediocre to bad in every other outing. Quintana was consistently good but got no run support. He lost far too many games giving up 1 or 2 runs.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I think some teams thought he would improve, he stayed healthy.. they put too much emphasis on the K .

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Let's say he's 16- 11 with 3.51 era... Will you be open minded enough to say " maybe it was the lousy Sox offense"

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I think he could do that. It certainly helps to play on a better team. But the fact is, the Cub offense is likely to be only a fraction of a run better per game than that "lousy" Sox offenses he played with. The problem is not "run support".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You can't use what the Sox offense did in games he did pitch in. Until last year Quintana was leading or in the top 3 in Worst Run Support. IIRC despite giving up 2 runs or less in 60% of his games (Before last season) he wasn't more than a game or 2 over .500 in those games.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

As I said, I watched Sox games where they would be up 1-0 and Quintana would give up two runs the very next inning. Sox would score 4, and Quintana would give up 3. It happened a lot.

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It did NOT. That was debunked a couple of years ago. Yahoo still has game logs so things like this can't just be tossed out.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Ok.

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You seem to be suggesting that the Sox offense was somehow worse when Quintana pitched. Please clarify.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

It was. More than 2 runs off some seasons. I may have some free time later and I will go back through his game log and post his numbers in games he gave up 2 runs or fewer.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

This thread covers some of it. I'll still provide some up to date numbers. I see he had only given up more than 4 runs 14 times in that thread. It feels like he's given up more than 4 runs 14 times since I made that post.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=100953&p=2493232&hilit=2+runs+or+less#p2493232

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Is Quintana cursed? Or is a more logical explanation that the same conditions that allowed Quintana to limit run scoring did the same for the opposing pitcher(s)?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Cursed? No. He just had bad luck. The day the Sox absolutely sucked on offense just kept happening when he pitched. I can post the weather and umps if you would like but your conditions theory isn't logical for over 90 starts. He also didn't have the luxury of facing a bad Sox lineup so the conditions he pitched in were not identical to his opponent.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There is an evil witch doctor that determines how he pitches. Scary shit.

You're making my point about how "run support" doesn't exist. In 2013 the Sox had the worst offense in the AL. Quintana was 9-7. In 2014 they were right at the league average offensively. By your logic Quintana's record should be better. But he was 9-11. In 2015 they were back to being the worst offense in the league. Quintana was 9-10. In 2016 the Sox offense was just slightly worse than the average AL team. Quintana was 13-12. He's a .500 pitcher. And that's what he'll likely be on the Cubs. Sure he may pick up some percentage points if they can take him off the hook a few times the way they did Saturday. It doesn't make him better. It actually makes him lucky.

If you can't pitch better than the guys you face in the games you face them, how good can you really be?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

This statement doesn't make any sense. When you say this, you are completely, 100% absolving Quintana from all of his loses.

For the umpires and weather, go ahead and post the times that the Sox had a lead and Quintana gave it up.

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No you're making points that are irrelevant. The runs the Sox scored in their other games doesn't matter when it comes to Quintana's record. The runs they scored when he was on the mound does. They scored fewer runs in the games he pitched. That's why he was always at the bottom of the league in run support.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

When a guy gives up 2 runs or less over 90 times but doesn't win half of those games I won't blame him.

You made the statement so you can provide the evidence. I told you you can find the game logs on Yahoo by the season.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You're completely ignoring the opposing pitchers who pitched better than Quintana did. He was at the bottom of the league in "run support" because some guy who you would probably argue isn't as good as Quintana pitched better than he did about half the time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Again, you seem to be suggesting that a team somehow became less capable over 180 starts whenever a particular pitcher took the mound. Do you know how crazy that sounds?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Let's try it this way. If Boyd bowls with 10 other guys and averages 279 over 180 games but he has the lowest average of the ten, do you think Boyd bowled great? Because one thing Boyd knows is, he didn't get the money.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

No he is not, he said Q didn't have the luxury of pitching against the bad Sox offense the opposing pitchers did.

I don't understand your need to prove Q is not good. The game before last was a good game for Q. Lets wait until the weather warms up or atleast until guys can grip a ball without their fingers freezing to judge his performance.

Nobody is judging him off one game. We're judging him based on his 180 starts with the White Sox.

Jay Cutler and Jose Quintana get so many excuses its unbelievable. Full disclosure, I was an apologist for both. I was wrong.

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Stop saying that. It's bullshit. Offense production is determined by the pitcher(s) that face the offense. When the Sox offense was middle of the pack (not bad) Quintana was still under .500.

I'm not trying to prove anything. And it goes beyond Quintana to this silly modern idea that a starting pitcher is a victim to his record rather than being responsible for it.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

What about Nas' quote don't you understand?

Quintana was #3 on lowest run support?

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