He's not on the Sox anymore. Get over it. He will be better with the Cubs. Not Cy Young level, but 16-11 quality starter better.

You think if Cutler was traded to the Patriots he wouldn't have been better then what he was with the Bears?

Another horrible comp by Sox fans, Cutty sucked no matter where he went he turned the ball over and got hurt.

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All that means is that a guy on the other team pitched better than he did. Funny how no one talks about Bob Gibson's or Clayton Kershaw's "run support".

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Cutler was the polar opposite of Q. Early in his Bears career the defense HELPED him win games and his offensive weapons (Forte,Marshall) helped him win games. Horrible comp from WhiteSox Nation.

Q is not that type of pitcher Maybe that is your problem, you expect Q to be Cy Young level pitcher. He is not and is not getting paid to be one.

If you were talking about Darvish and he continues to struggle then yes, he sucks and is not performing the way Theo had planned. Darvish, Kershaw, Kuber exc. have completely different expectations then Q.

Did they pitch better or did they pitch against lesser competition? The opposing pitcher got to bum slay. Quintana didn't.

I like how JORR gets to compare the two starting pitchers but it is ANATHEMA to compare the two offenses.

When and how does a hypocrite find out he is a hypocrite?

But, oh sure, I'M THE ONE WITH NO SELF AWARENESS.

This friggin guy...

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Good? Yeah, I agree.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You're conveniently ignoring his record when he pitched on teams with average offenses. You probably won't be able to do that after this season, though the Cub offense doesn't look so sporty thus far.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Bum slay, huh?


Quintana had a winning record when every single AL offense he pitched against was worse than his own.
Quintana had a losing record when half of the AL offenses he pitched against were worse than his own.


So is it run support? Is it a bad Sox offense? Is it bad luck? Or could it just actually be that Quintana just isn't a winner.

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God damn are you dense Frank, now go look at 2014 run support for Quintana.. It's not league average..it's putrid.

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So now we're back to curses. A league average offense refuses to perform when Quintana takes the mound.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Eat shit.

Keep up. IMU said Quintana's opposing pitchers were bum slayers. I merely pointed out that Q had a winning record when he faced offenses that were all better than the Sox offenses.

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Which, although a small sample, certainly does nothing to dispel my contention that "run support" is a specious concept.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Bernsie just went on a mini rant about starting pitchers and wins. His whole contention that it doesn't matter is incorrect. If your starting pitcher gets a win, then the team wins. If your starting pitcher gets a loss, then your team losses. Both of those outcomes are totally relevant to any baseball team.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Cutler didn't have coaches. He didn't have an OLine. He didn't have WRs....

Quintana didn't have run support. Quintana played on shitty teams, Quintana didn't have the chance to "bum slay" against the Sox offense..

I wasn't comparing the players. I was comparing the fact that both guys had MANY excuses made for their performances on the field.

God damn, you are dense.

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It should be obvious that W/L record measures performance vs. other pitchers under the same conditions. When the sample is large enough most subjects will have faced a good variety of offenses both better and worse than their own.

It also should be noted that the difference in offenses within the space of a single game is negligible and quite dependent upon the pitchers.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

So why bother. It's a meaningless made up stat that tells you absolutely nothing about how an individual performed in a team game.

It's far from meaningless and all stats are "made up". It tells you a lot about an indivdual. Your choice to ignore it causes you to have silly thoughts about Samardzija.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Because I care if my team wins. And if my starting pitcher wins, then the team has won. That's why I care.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

All stats were "made up" at some point. Ten years ago, nobody gave a shit about "exit velocity."

One stat may not tell you about a performance. When you have MANY stats over the course of 180+ starts, W-L absolutely tells you something.

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BA, Wins, RBI's are just descriptions of things that have happened in a game, season, career. They are defined and well understood. They may not be the best way to describe and compare players against one another, but they are directionally correct. All else being equal, I'll take the guy with a higher BA.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

So worry about team wins. Don’t worry about what individual the official scorer awards the win to based on some bullshit made up criteria after the game is over.

Here's the problem with your line of thinking. If W/L records are truly meaningless, you can make no argument that Jack McDowell was better than Jose DeLeon, that Catfish Hunter was better than Joel Horlen, or that Mark Buehrle was better than Javier Vazquez. The ONLY THING that suggests any of them are better than their counterpart is W/L record.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Nobody today should give a shit about exit velocity either.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

The official scorer doesn't award a win except in rare circumstances when a starter leaves with the lead before completing five innings and his team maintains the lead.

And this discussion isn't about wins in relief anyway. I would agree that relief wins are meaningless except in the case of a closer where any decision- W or L- is generally a negative.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You can pitch awful and get a win, you can pitch great and get the loss..It's not a good indicator of much.

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God damn, you are dense.

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Quintana was the no decision king on that shitball team.. A mediocre team with mediocre offense, defense and relief pitching puts him with 20 more wins.

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Of course you can. But nobody- or at least very few- has 200 starts drastically affected that way. Is there a guy you consider a good/great starter with a sub-.500 record? In 120 years of baseball you should be able to find some. I'll help you out. Joel Horlen might be the best and he's one game under .500. The best guys other than him I can come up with are Murry Dickson and Ned Garver. Garver might be your poster boy as he played on a lot of truly atrocious teams. But these guys would be outliers. Generally, good starters have good winning percentages.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

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