Great emotion today!

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Hawaii (fuck) You

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Well, we aren't talking about pressure. We're talking hours worked.

Pressure would be harder to quantify than time.

The idea of filling out a time card must put the fear of God into poor leash.

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TM, I can't even imagine how any management level employee could fill out a time card to comply with wage and hour laws. My personal and business life are intertwined where I am responding to e-mails while watching a Cubs or traveling multiple times a month. We have business meetings at sporting events and bars, and I sit in airports and hotel rooms.

There is massive amount of litigation (class action mostly) against companies for violations of wage and hour laws, and defending those is tough because you have to accurate time card records. It comes down to recording all the required breaks, not working off the clock, and proving that people are paid if they are doing any work.

I'd probably just turn in a time card that says I work 24 hours day to avoid missing a one minute snippet where I responded to an e-mail at 9:30 at night.

People are mistaking exempt/salaried people for having 40 hour per week jobs. They are paid a flat wage for doing their jobs. Some weeks that is 35 hours and some weeks that is 45 hours. It is like buying an unlimited Internet package that allows you to use as much service as you need.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

What if you were offered a 10% salary increase if you could determine how much you worked in the last year? Ill bet you could.


Working from home or being on call does not make it impossible to quantify. Its harder than a guy who punches in at 7 and leaves at 3, but it's very possible.

Whenever you are talking about bosses and company owners, you SHOULD be talking about the risks and pressure that they have assumed and others have not.

So I'll ask, do you want your company owners risk and responsibilities for your own?

If so, how much should you be compensated for that?

Do you know what he or she is currently being compensated for it?

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Many highly paid professionals do exactly that. Why do you think it is so complex?

My guess is you'd have quite a conversation with your boss by payday on that one.

I don't think anyone is mistaking that. A salaried employee does not mean that you are required to work unlimited hours for that compensation. Of course an employer will take advantage of that to get as much "free" labor as possible. Just imagine if your boss came in today and said "Hey denis, we are going to need you to come in from 7am to 7pm every day of the week for the rest of the time that you work here". I doubt you would say "Well, you give me a salary which means that I will work an unlimited amount of hours".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If the owners can't handle it then shut down the business and become an employee.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Aren't expense reports tedious enough? Do I really need to record that I came in at 7:27 AM, left for lunch at 11:13 and back at 12:03, ran out for a doctor's appointment at 1:04 and was back to 2:17 only to go home at 5:39. Checked e-mail at 7:12 to 7:14.

No thanks. Wage and hour laws are very clear on exempt and non-exempt employees. I am not paid hourly nor do I want to be. I have no clue how many hours I worked last year. Last week I got up at 3:45 AM to catch a 6:30 flight to NYC. I got back to the hotel room around 10:00 PM. I am not tracking on/off the clock for that.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Are you saying you have no idea how many hours a week you work on average?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, I shouldn't.

You're adding all kinds of things here. I've said nothing about compensation or risk.

Leash made a statement about quantifying hours worked. Nothing else, just hours worked. I stated that it's possible, which it is. Hours worked is possible to determine even for people who work odd hours, are on call, or check emails at night.

I have no issue with my bosses. From what I know of it, they are compensated fairly for the large amount of work and risk they take on.

You're barking up the wrong tree, here.

I'm not saying you should or it's a good idea. Im saying it's possible, which it clearly is.

I know the average. If you produce a time card for an hourly employee with an average, you will get a massive fine from the DOL. You have to record exact in and out including all required breaks and lunch. You try telling the DOL about averages. We write employment practices coverage. This is an area of expertise for me.

You're trying to fix something that's not broken. Next thing I know, you're going to try to unionize insurance underwriters!

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Hawaii (fuck) You

If Rick is saying everyone should be paid hourly, I disagree. I was just correcting Leash's non sensical post.

Well you go and figure out if it's good and bad and get back to me. Otherwise, stop wasting my time. I need to clock out for these posts.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It's really not too hard to do one as a salaried employee.

8:00-8:30: Answer email
8:30-11:00: Post on CFMB
11:00-12:00: Do the easiest thing on my list
12:00-1:00: Lunch
1:00-1:15: Email my boss I did something
1:15-3:00: Post on CFMB
3:00-4:00: Do work
4:00-4:56: Pretend to do work
4:56-5:00: Watch clock
5:00:Gone
8:15-8:18: Respond to email

12 hour day completed. Pay me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ok, Ill cease and desist from forcing you to post and respond.


How do you even know how much time is being wasted? It's impossible to quantify!

I think we should all be employees of Jeff Bezos.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If you can figure out the average then it wouldn't be hard to figure out when you were working. Many professionals do it all the time.

Let me ask it a different way. How many hours could your employer ask you to work for a long period of time that you would find to be acceptable? 80 hours?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If it crept above 45 hours per week, I would seek another job. Our company places a high priority on work/life balance. We also have lower than industry average wages whereby people that leave often get 20-30% bumps in pay. I see the salaries of executives at my competitors, and their base salaries are often 50-100% more than mine. I value the typical 40 hour work week.

That is the reason I have stayed here since finishing grad school.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

You mean you made a choice for a different lifestyle than others and there is a wage gap between you and some peers?

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Elections have consequences.

So it sounds like you agree with my thoughts on this topic then.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Time to start complaining. Won't someone help Dennis narrow his wage gap????

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I guess denis somehow has the male version of "cares more about his children than he does about his work" gene that should only exist for women.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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Elections have consequences.

Seacrest's chiropractor claims to be able to do both.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Owners are on in for more than just hours worked.

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I know you're joking around, but my wife and I made a lot of lifestyle choices. We waited to get married for much longer than most. Then waited until I finished grad school and didn't need her income to have children so she could stay home with them.

As a younger lad, I wanted to work on Wall Street. But as I got older and more family oriented, I chose an industry that is lower pressure and pay for work life balance.

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Hawaii (fuck) You