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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:50 am 
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Nas wrote:
Who a few guys you think the Bears should grab at 8? Who are some late round sleepers in this draft? Any other draft knowledge you can drop?


Here are the scenarios for day one I see:

1) The four QB all go before 8 as well as Chubb and Barkley. Derwin James is a wildcard pick (not THAT wild) by someone, possibly Tampa. That leaves Nelson or Fitzpatrick as the two elite talents on the board. Take your pick. Personally, I think there is a wealth of interior line talent in the draft that can be had in the second (I would be on board even taking a center in the second and moving Whitehair back to his best position) so I would go Fitzpatrick. I don't think either position screams need but you can't overthink it when you have that level of player available to you; or

2) Same scenario but either the Bills, Dolphins or Cards like Lamar Jackson and feel the need to jump the other two to get him. I think in any of these scenarios the target is now Trumaine Edmunds. As I said a couple of months ago, he's the Paciest guy I see.

3) One of the four QB fall, Nelson, Chubb, Barkley and Fitzpatrick get taken. This is the scenario I want. Teams will be forming a conga line for the pick, including, SURPRISE, the Patriots. I don't care how far they move down in that scenario other than I want Marcus Davenport to be available.

So, in short, Fitzpatrick if everything is static.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:52 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Who a few guys you think the Bears should grab at 8? Who are some late round sleepers in this draft? Any other draft knowledge you can drop?


Here are the scenarios for day one I see:

1) The four QB all go before 8 as well as Chubb and Barkley. Derwin James is a wildcard pick (not THAT wild) by someone, possibly Tampa. That leaves Nelson or Fitzpatrick as the two elite talents on the board. Take your pick. Personally, I think there is a wealth of interior line talent in the draft that can be had in the second (I would be on board even taking a center in the second and moving Whitehair back to his best position) so I would go Fitzpatrick. I don't think either position screams need but you can't overthink it when you have that level of player available to you; or

2) Same scenario but either the Bills, Dolphins or Cards like Lamar Jackson and feel the need to jump the other two to get him. I think in any of these scenarios the target is now Trumaine Edmunds. As I said a couple of months ago, he's the Paciest guy I see.

3) One of the four QB fall, Nelson, Chubb, Barkley and Fitzpatrick get taken. This is the scenario I want. Teams will be forming a conga line for the pick, including, SURPRISE, the Patriots. I don't care how far they move down in that scenario other than I want Marcus Davenport to be available.

So, in short, Fitzpatrick if everything is static.


GD and I agree on basically all counts here. I don't really have a major thing for Davenport necessarily, but all else? Lockstep.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:57 am 
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sleeper picks? I really like the idea of Chark, wr, lsu but he isn't a sleeper

My sleepers at WR are Berrios from the U and Lazzard from Iowa State. They are two completely different players. Berrios is a slot WR, which they need. He is a little guy but never seemed covered, even against the U's elite schedule. Lazard is a massive. He had some trouble with drops but ISU seemed to go to him every time they needed a play. He's a guy in the Meredith/Alshon mode who won't get a lot of separation but his "catch radius" is so huge and body so wide he creates openings.

I don't love the OT group this year and I wouldn't overdraft this guy (third round if they pick up some extra picks via trade) O'Neill from Pitt. Former TE with skill player feet. He needs to develop physically a little more but at 6-7 and almost 300, he can do it.

The rush LB who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth is Okoronkwo from Oklahoma. He had a slow 40 and being undersized, speed is critical to his game. He looked VERY fast in game conditions.

One ILB that is getting no love is local guy Nyles Morgan. Usually ND players are overrated. Not so here. I think he is a leader, a strong tackler and has the speed to be a 3 down ILB.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:41 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
sleeper picks? I really like the idea of Chark, wr, lsu but he isn't a sleeper

My sleepers at WR are Berrios from the U and Lazzard from Iowa State. They are two completely different players. Berrios is a slot WR, which they need. He is a little guy but never seemed covered, even against the U's elite schedule. Lazard is a massive. He had some trouble with drops but ISU seemed to go to him every time they needed a play. He's a guy in the Meredith/Alshon mode who won't get a lot of separation but his "catch radius" is so huge and body so wide he creates openings.

I don't love the OT group this year and I wouldn't overdraft this guy (third round if they pick up some extra picks via trade) O'Neill from Pitt. Former TE with skill player feet. He needs to develop physically a little more but at 6-7 and almost 300, he can do it.

The rush LB who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth is Okoronkwo from Oklahoma. He had a slow 40 and being undersized, speed is critical to his game. He looked VERY fast in game conditions.

One ILB that is getting no love is local guy Nyles Morgan. Usually ND players are overrated. Not so here. I think he is a leader, a strong tackler and has the speed to be a 3 down ILB.


I endorsed Alex Cappa as a guy who could be quality interior line depth should they lose confidence in Kush's recovery, but the Watford signing may have nixed that.

I had some interest in Jake Weineke and Deadrin Senat but they could both be there in UDFA and may not qualify as sleepers, even.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:45 am 
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Versatile O-Lineman:

G/C Austin Corbett, Nevada

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/ ... n-corbett/

Edge rusher:

Joe Ostman, Central Michigan:

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2018/3/1 ... ns-meeting

Safety,

Tarvarius Moore, Southern Miss:

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/4/ ... jeff-heath

Fun-sized RB prospect:

Boston Scott, La Tech:

https://herosports.com/college-football ... scott-ahah

despite his small stature, Boston Scott led the nation in yards after contact; averaging 4.2 yards after contact per carry. Boston Scott racked up 45 forced missed tackles on 180 touches this year; which ranks Scott fourth among all running back prospects in elusive rating.


Last edited by Hussra on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:49 am 
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They can't take another Cohen sized RB. If they did, I really like the guy out of NCST. He was banged up this year and didn't produce as well as he could.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:01 pm 
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yeah. maybe not for the Bears. but a fun prospect to watch. Bengals traveled down to LaTech for a pro day or whatever with Scott and Scott's fellow Bulldog RB Jarred Craft


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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:11 pm 
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@Dolphin -not feeling Fitzpatrick at 8. Too high for a Nickel guy imo (yeah I know the league is changing and Nickel is becoming a base defense). Too much boom or bust there for my liking. Even tho I'm not crazy about taking a guard in the top 10, if it's between Fitz and Nelson at 8? I'd take Nelson all day long because I think it's a solid bet he's a good/great player at the NFL level, Fitzpatrick may struggle to be a nickel/dime guy. I'll acknowledge of course there's potential for him to be really good but I think there's more working against him than for him at the next level. I said this about Myles Garret last year too, jury is still out on that of course.


I like the idea of Chubb slipping or trading back tbh. I was initially on the Calvin Ridley train but watching film on him has cooled me on that a little. I do still like him tho, but top 10 might be pushing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 am 
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but I am down with the idea of eliminating the position of SS and moving entirely to double FS. No need for a big hitter back there any more like Amos. Give me two guys with CB coverage skills for this pass happy league. I think Jackson and Fitzpatrick could be a transformative combo.

I think it will be necessary as well as I don't see the pass rush getting better with the available talent this year.

My #1 move is a trade down and I really believe it is going to be there this year. Can you imagine the brilliance of moving to, say #12 with the Bills, and still getting a guy like Ward while also getting another second rounder?

Trade down and pray 5 QB go in the top 11.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:02 am 
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They are absolutely compelled to take an offensive player in the first three rounds. The OL and receiver corps were not addressed enough in free agency, those units are nowhere near good enough right now.

Trade down is really what they need but I see a trade up being way more likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:46 am 
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The world is trading up this year. The price is too high for a non QB.

This is the year of the trade down for the Bear and I think they are already lining up the calls.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:51 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Who a few guys you think the Bears should grab at 8? Who are some late round sleepers in this draft? Any other draft knowledge you can drop?



I am an advocate of building a good offensive line around a young quarterback. For that reason, I support going for the Nelson kid from Notre Dame. Their offensive line was a wreck last season and with all of the surgeries that Long is going to have, his coming back healthy is questionable at least. Plus they lose Sitton and their two offensive tackles are below average They need a major upgrade in offensive line talent and I would really not let Nelson get by them.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Nelson is unlikely to be available at #8.


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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:47 pm 
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America wrote:
Nelson is unlikely to be available at #8.



If he's gone..Fitz will be there.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:50 pm 
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They are razor thin at WR and have an OL much worse than last year's. They can't draft defense. The first two picks have to be an offensive lineman and skill position player.

Fangio will have to make do with what he has. Spending a dump truck full of money on Kyle Fuller was his help.


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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:52 pm 
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America wrote:
They are razor thin at WR and have an OL much worse than last year's. They can't draft defense. The first two picks have to be an offensive lineman and skill position player.

Fangio will have to make do with what he has. Spending a dump truck full of money on Kyle Fuller was his help.



We are getting a stud this year @ 8 unless numbnutz trades down and blows it. We can still grab two O linemen in the 2nd or 3rd rounds if Nelson isn't there.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:08 pm 
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America wrote:
They are razor thin at WR and have an OL much worse than last year's. They can't draft defense. The first two picks have to be an offensive lineman and skill position player.

Fangio will have to make do with what he has. Spending a dump truck full of money on Kyle Fuller was his help.


I think that they do have to really upgrade the O-Line at their highest priority and get Cohen rally more involved in the offense. To me, that kid can really be a difference maker. I got really frustrated by that lack of imagination on offense last year and really am pissed off by their abject failure through 3 consecutives head coaches now. I really question the mind set or philosophy of the Chicago Bears.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:12 pm 
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America wrote:
They are razor thin at WR and have an OL much worse than last year's. They can't draft defense. The first two picks have to be an offensive lineman and skill position player.

Fangio will have to make do with what he has. Spending a dump truck full of money on Kyle Fuller was his help.


There will be a starting caliber OL available at their pick in the second round guaranteed.

Consider taking Price, C, OSU, considered first round talent but tore a pec at the Combine. The alternative is Daniels, C, Iowa. Then you move Whitehair to OG and suddenly you have a very nice looking middle of the line. No chance two centers get taken before the Bears second pick.

If that doesn't suit you there are several OG that you should be able to plug in from Day 1.

The worst thing you can do is pick for need that high in the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:14 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
America wrote:
They are razor thin at WR and have an OL much worse than last year's. They can't draft defense. The first two picks have to be an offensive lineman and skill position player.

Fangio will have to make do with what he has. Spending a dump truck full of money on Kyle Fuller was his help.


I think that they do have to really upgrade the O-Line at their highest priority and get Cohen rally more involved in the offense. To me, that kid can really be a difference maker. I got really frustrated by that lack of imagination on offense last year and really am pissed off by their abject failure through 3 consecutives head coaches now. I really question the mind set or philosophy of the Chicago Bears.


really?

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:17 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
America wrote:
They are razor thin at WR and have an OL much worse than last year's. They can't draft defense. The first two picks have to be an offensive lineman and skill position player.

Fangio will have to make do with what he has. Spending a dump truck full of money on Kyle Fuller was his help.


There will be a starting caliber OL available at their pick in the second round guaranteed.

Consider taking Price, C, OSU, considered first round talent but tore a pec at the Combine. The alternative is Daniels, C, Iowa. Then you move Whitehair to OG and suddenly you have a very nice looking middle of the line. No chance two centers get taken before the Bears second pick.

If that doesn't suit you there are several OG that you should be able to plug in from Day 1.

The worst thing you can do is pick for need that high in the draft.


I think Price could fall to the 2nd. That pec tear did him no favors at all. Intriguing talent when healthy, but value dropped a ton. Then again, somebody may start a run on interior linemen in the late portion of the first, but I doubt it.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:16 am 
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I'd be really surprised if he didn't make it to well into the second. It's difficult for me to swallow taking a guard in the first and center is several degrees of importance lower. That is why I wish Whitehair would move back to OG. I think he is being wasted at center and isn't even that great at it

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:24 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I'd be really surprised if he didn't make it to well into the second. It's difficult for me to swallow taking a guard in the first and center is several degrees of importance lower. That is why I wish Whitehair would move back to OG. I think he is being wasted at center and isn't even that great at it


Agreed on Whitehair. The only reason I'd be cool with Nelson is the degree of talent. He's not simply a good guard, he's exceptional, perhaps even among NFLers. That's obviously 100000% speculatory, but then again Olin Kreutz is out there tweeting that the kid is bound for Canton.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Dewskie wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I'd be really surprised if he didn't make it to well into the second. It's difficult for me to swallow taking a guard in the first and center is several degrees of importance lower. That is why I wish Whitehair would move back to OG. I think he is being wasted at center and isn't even that great at it


Agreed on Whitehair. The only reason I'd be cool with Nelson is the degree of talent. He's not simply a good guard, he's exceptional, perhaps even among NFLers. That's obviously 100000% speculatory, but then again Olin Kreutz is out there tweeting that the kid is bound for Canton.



I guess that I disagree about Whitehair. I think that he is integral for (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky to succeed. He had trouble with the shotgun snap for a bit but to me, he and Nelson and a healthy Long would be terrific roadgraders for the offense. I am frankly much more concerned with the crap offensive tackles that they have. I would certainly look to free agency for replacing Massie and drafting a legit tackle prospect.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
He better be better than David Terrell, Dennis Lick and Wally Chambers


He had a Tommie Harris career.

Bears got Dan Hampton for Chambers.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:02 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Beardown wrote:
I don't give a shit if he ends up being a HOFer.


Are you serious?

If you can get a HOFer at any position you take it.

Now I have no idea if this kid will be a HOFer or not, but to say you dont want him even if he is a HOFer is just idiotic.


Lots of teams like to pressure up the middle; having a dominant guard goes a long way towards neutralizing that rush.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Dewskie wrote:
I've been of the mind that Nelson or Chubb won't be there at 8, but Chubb would take priority over Nelson (based on need) if both were there. If he's not, gotta think Nelson is the pick.

Edmunds feels like a very "Pace" pick. Athletic, versatile prospect who has a world of potential. I don't really know if I like Edmunds right now, but I haven't seen anything on his tape that says, "top 10 game changer." Then again, I'm not anything even remotely close to a football evaluator beyond whatever measurables can move the average dope.

I'd personally be very cool with Vita Vea or Fitzpatrick. Both of those guys seem like studs who could help a franchise. Fitzpatrick is a bit of conundrum since he's sort of a honey badger type, position-less guy who you need to find a way to use, but the ability to bust up an offense is invaluable in my eyes.

In a perfect world, I suppose, the Bears trade down and recoup a few picks, perhaps even getting some ammunition for 2019, but I don't see Pace doing that since he's only ever traded up in round one.


Gabriel this morning on M&H seemed to view Edmunds as a ILB; seems to be a little tall to project there. Definitely would be a project; perhaps having him more as the contain/run-stopping OLB while letting Floyd concentrate on pass-rushing would be good, but not at #8.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:13 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
Dewskie wrote:
I've been of the mind that Nelson or Chubb won't be there at 8, but Chubb would take priority over Nelson (based on need) if both were there. If he's not, gotta think Nelson is the pick.

Edmunds feels like a very "Pace" pick. Athletic, versatile prospect who has a world of potential. I don't really know if I like Edmunds right now, but I haven't seen anything on his tape that says, "top 10 game changer." Then again, I'm not anything even remotely close to a football evaluator beyond whatever measurables can move the average dope.

I'd personally be very cool with Vita Vea or Fitzpatrick. Both of those guys seem like studs who could help a franchise. Fitzpatrick is a bit of conundrum since he's sort of a honey badger type, position-less guy who you need to find a way to use, but the ability to bust up an offense is invaluable in my eyes.

In a perfect world, I suppose, the Bears trade down and recoup a few picks, perhaps even getting some ammunition for 2019, but I don't see Pace doing that since he's only ever traded up in round one.


Gabriel this morning on M&H seemed to view Edmunds as a ILB; seems to be a little tall to project there. Definitely would be a project; perhaps having him more as the contain/run-stopping OLB while letting Floyd concentrate on pass-rushing would be good, but not at #8.



I don't really like Edmunds, but I'd try to see the bright side if he went at 8. He feels like a massive project, as you said. I'm of the mind you take Fitzpatrick or Vea or ideally you trade down, but I'm bracing myself to be thoroughly annoyed for Pace to take Ridley or Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Dewskie wrote:
FrankDrebin wrote:
Dewskie wrote:
I've been of the mind that Nelson or Chubb won't be there at 8, but Chubb would take priority over Nelson (based on need) if both were there. If he's not, gotta think Nelson is the pick.

Edmunds feels like a very "Pace" pick. Athletic, versatile prospect who has a world of potential. I don't really know if I like Edmunds right now, but I haven't seen anything on his tape that says, "top 10 game changer." Then again, I'm not anything even remotely close to a football evaluator beyond whatever measurables can move the average dope.

I'd personally be very cool with Vita Vea or Fitzpatrick. Both of those guys seem like studs who could help a franchise. Fitzpatrick is a bit of conundrum since he's sort of a honey badger type, position-less guy who you need to find a way to use, but the ability to bust up an offense is invaluable in my eyes.

In a perfect world, I suppose, the Bears trade down and recoup a few picks, perhaps even getting some ammunition for 2019, but I don't see Pace doing that since he's only ever traded up in round one.


Gabriel this morning on M&H seemed to view Edmunds as a ILB; seems to be a little tall to project there. Definitely would be a project; perhaps having him more as the contain/run-stopping OLB while letting Floyd concentrate on pass-rushing would be good, but not at #8.



I don't really like Edmunds, but I'd try to see the bright side if he went at 8. He feels like a massive project, as you said. I'm of the mind you take Fitzpatrick or Vea or ideally you trade down, but I'm bracing myself to be thoroughly annoyed for Pace to take Ridley or Smith.


I'm not really interested in other project in the first round- White & Floyd were athletic freaks but have not panned out as expected. Get me a football player. I love for them to draft Nelson or Roquan Smith at #8. Fangio's defense in SF had 2 outstanding ILBs in Willis & Bowman; I can see that with Trevathan and Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: Doc and GD?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Dewskie wrote:
FrankDrebin wrote:
Dewskie wrote:
I've been of the mind that Nelson or Chubb won't be there at 8, but Chubb would take priority over Nelson (based on need) if both were there. If he's not, gotta think Nelson is the pick.

Edmunds feels like a very "Pace" pick. Athletic, versatile prospect who has a world of potential. I don't really know if I like Edmunds right now, but I haven't seen anything on his tape that says, "top 10 game changer." Then again, I'm not anything even remotely close to a football evaluator beyond whatever measurables can move the average dope.

I'd personally be very cool with Vita Vea or Fitzpatrick. Both of those guys seem like studs who could help a franchise. Fitzpatrick is a bit of conundrum since he's sort of a honey badger type, position-less guy who you need to find a way to use, but the ability to bust up an offense is invaluable in my eyes.

In a perfect world, I suppose, the Bears trade down and recoup a few picks, perhaps even getting some ammunition for 2019, but I don't see Pace doing that since he's only ever traded up in round one.


Gabriel this morning on M&H seemed to view Edmunds as a ILB; seems to be a little tall to project there. Definitely would be a project; perhaps having him more as the contain/run-stopping OLB while letting Floyd concentrate on pass-rushing would be good, but not at #8.



I don't really like Edmunds, but I'd try to see the bright side if he went at 8. He feels like a massive project, as you said. I'm of the mind you take Fitzpatrick or Vea or ideally you trade down, but I'm bracing myself to be thoroughly annoyed for Pace to take Ridley or Smith.





Minus an injury scenario -there's more value in Ridley or Smith at 8 than there is in Fitzpatrick. I'd be more annoyed at making a nickel back/tweener a top-10 selection than those 1st two.


Both Ridley and Fitzpatrick have 'boom or bust' type potential, but Ridleys upside combined with need at the position outweigh Fitzpatrick's potential impact for the Bears imo. Smith seems like a safe pick out of the 3, with solid immediate impact potential.


Meh, I'm really hoping the Bears can trade down a bit and gain some picks. It's a decently deep draft for the 1st 3 rounds, but it's also not a 'can't miss prospect' drast at the top either.

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