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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:10 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
WAR is made up stat!!!! Oh wait......



All stats are "made up".

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:34 am 
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Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:50 am 
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Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:51 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.


He's pitched worse than 8 ERA Quintana?

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:05 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.


He's pitched worse than 8 ERA Quintana?


That's 7.78 ERA Quintana to you sir!


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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:05 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.


He's pitched worse than 8 ERA Quintana?



They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:13 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.


He's pitched worse than 8 ERA Quintana?



They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.


Come on! You're a baseball guy. I know you've probably forgotten more about the history of the game than I know. There is no way you've seen both of them pitch and thought Quintana was better. He's absolutely sucked in all but 1 game. This is when being rigid is wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:16 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.


He's pitched worse than 8 ERA Quintana?



They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.


Come on! You're a baseball guy. I know you've probably forgotten more about the history of the game than I know. There is no way you've seen both of them pitch and thought Quintana was better. He's absolutely sucked in all but 1 game.



Again, it's more complicated than you make it seem. You can't go out and shoot a 70 at Waveland and claim you played better than Tiger Woods did in his last round at the Masters.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:42 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.

But only for pitchers? Position players' numbers are not relevant within the context in which they were created?

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:48 am 
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Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?


Yes, I agree. Lopez has been excellent.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:56 am 
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IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.

But only for pitchers? Position players' numbers are not relevant within the context in which they were created?



Do you mean position players' numbers are only relevant within their context? If so, of course they are. That's why Chuck Klein and Dante Bichette aren't as great as they look without putting the numbers in context.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:57 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.

But only for pitchers? Position players' numbers are not relevant within the context in which they were created?



Do you mean position players numbers are only relevant within their context? If so, of course they are. That's why Chuck Klein and Dante Bichette aren't as great as they look without putting the numbers in context.

And Javier Baez is a better player than Ryne Sandberg. Exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:58 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?



No.


He's pitched worse than 8 ERA Quintana?



They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.


Come on! You're a baseball guy. I know you've probably forgotten more about the history of the game than I know. There is no way you've seen both of them pitch and thought Quintana was better. He's absolutely sucked in all but 1 game.



Again, it's more complicated than you make it seem. You can't go out and shoot a 70 at Waveland and claim you played better than Tiger Woods did in his last round at the Masters.

That's a good argument. Ima use this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:59 am 
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IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have to pitch the games they're actually in. The numbers are only relevant within the context in which they were created.

But only for pitchers? Position players' numbers are not relevant within the context in which they were created?



Do you mean position players numbers are only relevant within their context? If so, of course they are. That's why Chuck Klein and Dante Bichette aren't as great as they look without putting the numbers in context.

And Javier Baez is a better player than Ryne Sandberg. Exactly.



I don't know how you get there, but I guess if you want to take such a position you can.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Ryne Sandberg didn't outperform the other team's hitters. Javier Baez does.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:03 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Ryne Sandberg didn't outperform the other team's hitters.



That's incorrect. He outperformed most other hitters who were in the same games as he was.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:19 pm 
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IMU is struggling. Not his fault though. Everyone learns eventually that position players and starting pitchers don’t have the same impact on games.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:27 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?


Yes, I agree. Lopez has been excellent.


He's been arguably the most promising young player.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Nas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can we all agree that Lopez has pitched better than Quintana so far this season by a wide margin?


Yes, I agree. Lopez has been excellent.


He's been arguably the most promising young player.


100% agree. It's very early, but Sox fans should be watching him with excitement. His quotes in the paper also show he is down to earth focusing on what he can control. I wouldn't let the mess that is the current team impact my feelings about the organization's future. For some reason, the current collection of players on the major league roster just isn't working well together. It's like a bad snowball effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ryne Sandberg didn't outperform the other team's hitters.



That's incorrect. He outperformed most other hitters who were in the same games as he was.

According to what? Your arbitrary made up "stats" of choice? Show me where the wins were.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:17 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ryne Sandberg didn't outperform the other team's hitters.



That's incorrect. He outperformed most other hitters who were in the same games as he was.

According to what? Your arbitrary made up "stats" of choice? Show me where the wins were.


Well, I am assuming he did, since he is in the Hall of Fame and the vast majority of those he played against are not. But I admit I don't know for an absolute fact whether he did. In any case, I think my assumption is a safe one.

Additionally, I will point out, once again, that all stats are arbitrary and "made up". Further, there is no "win" stat for second basemen. That's quite likely because there is very little correlation between the performance of the respective second basemen and their teams' success in a particular game.

There's a reason a baseball line looks like this:

Minnesota Twins (Jake Odorizzi- R) +1½ (-110)
New York Yankees (Masahiro Tanaka- R) -1½ (-110)

And not like this:

Minnesota Twins (Brian Dozier- R) +1½ (-110)
New York Yankees (Gleyber Torres- R) -1½ (-110)

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:55 pm 
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And the reason is archaic traditionalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Reynaldo Lopez
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:20 pm 
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IMU wrote:
And the reason is archaic traditionalism.



More likely because the starting pitchers have an exponentially greater effect on the game than the second basemen.

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