Jorr, is 65 or 70 games enough of a sample size to know what a pitcher is? I mean if hes sub 500 after that many games that's just who he is?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Okay.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

See? Not smart.

How does somebody lose something that hasn't happened yet? Explain that "numbnuts"

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Jorr has you all arguing about his record. He already won.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

We're not trying to convince us. We're trying to convince him, with his own logic.

Anyone under the age of 40 who is at least a little knowledgeable about traditional stats and/or modern metrics has no need to be convinced.

Quintana was already a TOR starter while he had a losing record with the White Sox.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

He's 10-4 as a Cub, he's 60-58 overall, everybody outside of 6 Sox fans on this website knew he'd rack up more wins after he left that awful team..It's happened, it will continue to happen.

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I've never once argued that he might not get an extra win here or there playing on a better team. Already this year he's been saved from a bad loss that he hung on his team and himself with a brutal first inning. That likely wouldn't have happened had he pitched for the White Sox or Royals. But it simply isn't the case that he is suddenly going to be a .700 pitcher because of the specious concept of "run support". You vastly overestimate how much his team affects his record.

You keep saying it will "continue to happen". So I have a $100 bet just for you. I say he will be closer to .500 at the end of the season than .714. How about that?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You moved the goalpost from .500 to .608

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Yeah being 12-8 wouldn't win your bet.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I don't think you understand how it works. He's well established as a .500 pitcher. You seem to think playing for the Cubs will magically cause him to be appreciably better than that, as if his team averaging a fraction of a run more per game is suddenly going to turn him into Sandy Koufax. If you think the Cubs made him go 10-4, why are you afraid that he won't repeat it? He's still on the Cubs, isn't he?

And look, I'm not even saying he might not have a season where he goes 18-6 or something. Baseball history is littered with ordinary pitchers who had good years. Quintana should be in the prime of his career and he happens to be playing on a good team.

I've never once said that I thought the Cubs were dumb for trading for him. A lot of you want to turn the discussion into the same old tired Cubs/Sox crap. I hated Quintana more when he played on my team. I'm just telling you I know who he is, how he pitches, and what he's going to give you. If you think he's a "top of the rotation" stud, you're just mistaken. And when his career is over he's gonna be right around .500. As a Cub fan you should hope you get his best two or three years. And considering his age, you really should.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You said he is going to be 20 games over .500 in September of 2019. Q would need to pitch at a .700 clip to accomplish that.

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I dont think anyone thinks hes a top of the rotation stud. Hes the 4th starter. Hes is clearly going to get more wins with a team that has a competent offense behind him. It's weird that this is even a question.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You'd think that, but Q actually had a better record when the Sox had the worst offense in the league then he did when the Sox had a middle-of-the-road competent offense

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Yeah well we'll see. So far since he's been here I haven't seen what you said he is. Hes just been winning.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

FWIW, I agree that over the course of a career, W-L record will reflect how good a pitcher is. The problem is it's not really great in smaller sample sizes. While that is true of any stat, it's especially true of W-L record because there are so many other variables at play. If you were trying to judge a guy's performance within a season, I think there are probably better stats.

With Quintana, I can't speak to his time with the Sux, but I don't know how he was able to put up the peripheral numbers he did. He's just not a dominant starting pitcher, and his W/L record with the Sux is about what I would expect.

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Some guys just know how to get outs without dominant stuff. You may have seen a few in your lifetime grasshopper.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

True. And those guys compile W/L records like Mark Buehrle, Jon Lester, and Kyle Hendricks.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

On good to great teams that more times than not scored more than 2 runs when they were on the mound.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Wrong. Hendricks's best record was on an atrocious Cub team. You have it exactly backward. The teams are good because of pitchers like Buehrle and Hendricks.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Hendricks best season was 16-8 in 2016. That team win 90 plus

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I didn't say best season. I said best record.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yup

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Strong four innings tonight.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He wasn’t great but really only made one mistake. Cubs gotta score more than 3.

Didn't allow an earned run. Strong outing where his defense and infield singles had him throw a few too many pitches and one mistake. Not a bad day. Sometimes a pitcher will be on the short end when the offense sucks.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Some more than others. Enjoy!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Dave WanstedtMU

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Nice game. 6 IP, 1 ER. Likely now 4-2 and 11-5 (.6875) in career as a Cub.

Few pitchers could "gut" it out and win a game like today.

A lot of faith in that bullpen!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don