Right. And it's not just that James played with more fellow All Stars, he went out of his way to ditch his teams at least twice now to play with them, and has made numerous comments over the past 3-4 years of needing more help. It might be due to my age but I don't remember Jordan publicly asking for more help multiple times. LeBron at least seems more aware of his limitations than his biggest fans.

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Going from memory earlier. Lebron played with that dopey center zylgunis his rookie year, moe Williams, wade Bosch all 4 years in Miami, love and Irving on the cavs.


And moving from miami to the cavs put him back into the prime of the other all stars.

I’m not arguing Jordan didn’t play with any talent. It’s hard for me to hear arguements that Lebron didn’t play with more talent.

Also think about young talent. What was the highest draft pick jordon ever saw join the bulls. For a decade he was getting low first round picks added to his team. Moving from the heat to the cavs both saw a huge influx of young lottery picks on both jumps.

Even Rodman was a reclamation project. That's why he was traded for a backup center.

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Jordan also played in an Eastern Conf that was much tougher. It was the Bulls that ended the Bad Boy reign after all. The Knicks were formidable. So was Cleveland. Either of those teams are better than what Lebron has had to contend with. So was Indiana.

Damn i forgot the Shaq/Penny Orlando Magic. The Bulls knocked them off in the playoffs too.

Which team has Lebron defeated that was better than either of those two (Detroit and Orlando)?

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Turd making some great points.

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Look at Jordan's shooting percentages when he played on shitty teams too. Compare them with Lebron's. Lebron didn't start shooting over 50% til he started playing with better players. Jordan shot better than 50% even while playing with a roster that was the worst of any of the playoff teams every season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... ami01.html


https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... sle01.html

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Statements like this are where you become either intentionally misleading or poor at debates.

The question is, what is the most elite players LeBron has played with during a single season? Of course he played with a wider array of elite players OVER HIS CAREER. He has played for multiple franchises.

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Yet another one of your dumb memes that makes no sense. Is it possible for us to reboot you or something?

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No, he’s not. If you really step back, every argument made in favor of Jordan is laughable. He had less lottery picks? Who the fuck cares? Let’s at least try to make some arguments that inspire some sort of debate.

I almost want to jump on that side and make the arguments for you. This is fuckin embarrassing.

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And which argunents has anyone actually made in favor of James?

Also is there any argument weaker than the Jordan is better but I don't really think he is better argument that we've been arguing the past 2 days? Pick a lane. This is starting to feel like the Jorresque defense yet non defense of Donald Trump.

If you think Lebron is better then say it. To simply argue about it being debatable is utterly uninteresting.

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Is it more or less interesting than your "two guard was the glamour position of the first half of the 1987-1988 preseason" argument?

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Actually it is less interesting. At least i am providing something tangible to measure the guy against.

We are starting threads about his greatness as he is killing role playing rookies.

Michael Jordan wasn't referred to as the best ever because he dominated Jerry Sichting. He was referred to as the greatest ever because he separated himself from other great players of his era while competing against them.

That is how its supposed to be.

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Let's See. Michael Jordan avg 36 7 and 5 against a top 50 player all time during the NBA finals and its no big deal.

Lebron James dominates soon to be G League great Obie Wai Kanoby and its time to have the debate yet again. Give me a damn break.

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Jordan's competition was definitely no joke.

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Huh?

It's factually accurate. I'm sorry you don't remember the 90s Bulls.

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6-0 in nba finals with 6 finals mvps playing out of the stronger conference. What is the laughable Lebron rebut to that?

Jordan only took 1 team the nba finals. Lebron took 3! And Lebron had to manage 2 other superstars at each stop. Let see Jordan win a title playing penny and Shaq!

I’ve already made my argument and you have yet to make a better one or successfully rebut it.

Speaking of laughable, read the bottom part of your post again. Now let me remind you, you agree with us that Jordan is better!!

Yes, make the fucking argument. The “I agree with you but you’re still wrong as to why you agree with me” take is bizarre and lame.

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The "super team" thing with LBJ is over blown. First of all there's a very good argument for peak Pippen and Jordan being better or just as good than peak Wade and LBJ. After that it comes down to Grant/Rodman vs Bosh. That's closer than you might think.

On the Cleveland teams there's no way Kevin Love is a "superstar". Either is Jr Smith. Jordan/Pippen/Grant or Rodman vs James/Love/Smith goes easily in Jordan's favor.

Because Pippen was underpaid the Bulls could afford to surround their stars with better talent than James' Miami team could do with him. Put it together and you'll see that Jordan actually played with more talented players than James did.

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Yeah I remember many times that Jordan was matched up with Muggsy Bogues and sure you do as well. How could the world have missed those epic battles. Thanks Vegan you really are the basketball historian.

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It appears that I am the historian between me and you. At least I ain't running around telling people the SG spot was the glamour position of the league in a time where Hakeem, McHale, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Malone, Barkley, etc. roamed the court.

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It all depends on how highly you rate Pippen. Which is unfortunate for you. It’s impossible to simultaneously claim Pippen was not great and Jordan had superior teammates. Wade was inarguably great when LeBron join him.

The one thing that really kills LeBron in these debates is that he’s been outplayed in the Finals on multiple occasions Jordan never came close to that happening.

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You are making one dumb point after another. Wade was a better player than Pippen. This is the first stupid point. Chris Bosh was a much better player than Grant and the only person who thinks it s closer than you might think is you.

Lastly if you are going to making winning the primary measuring stick then do it. Too much parsing. Jordan never lost a Finals series and he was voted best player during every Finals series that he participated in. Can we say the same for James?

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You do realize that McHale wasn't a center and neither was Barkley or Malone.

The top 5 players from 88-92 were all non centers. Jordan Drexler Barkley Magic and Isaiah were regarded as the top 5 players for most of that pd. You don't make much sense arguing otherwise but that is sort of expected at this point. Even Walt is on to you.

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Yep and yep.

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The obvious thing is "big men" ruled the league. I never said centers. Just admit you made a dumbass mistake about shooting guards.

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But Jordan played with that elite Pippen almost every single season in his career. This isn't like LeBron had Love, Bosh and Wade all in a single season.

No way in hell Wade goes down as a better player than Pippen. That is wrong.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Wade is regarded by Many as the 3rd best 2 guard in history. He also will be regarded as a better player than Pippen.

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Now its "Big Men". So now you have conflated the argument to include Big men..

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I'm going to just relay numbers here.

All NBA?

Pippen 3
Wade 2

All D first team?
Pippen 8
Wade 0

Points?
Wade

Rebounds
Pippen

Assists
Pippen

Steals.

Pippen

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