He has some good points on this but also is a bit crazy.

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Force was used because he disobeyed lawful orders from police officers, at that point it had nothing to do with where is car was parked. Too much force was used, I think we all agree on that, but disobeying lawful orders, specifically lawful orders designed precisely for the safety of officers in the immediate vicinity, is going to get you forcefully arrested.

I think it's interesting to explore whether the outrage would be the same if the taser hadn't been used. If we just saw video of Brown disobeying lawful orders and then being brought to the ground by multiple officers and placed in handcuffs (which is kind of what we see anyway, from what I've seen of the video), would people still be as righteously pissed off? And if they would, doesn't that reveal the purpose and point of MANY to be "Sterling Brown should get to choose which lawful police orders he obeys without reprisal" instead of "police officers use too much force too easily [on black men]"?

Maybe MANY don't realize that's what they are really arguing for, but I haven't seen any "Sterling Brown didn't deserve to be tased, but he did deserve a forceful arrest" takes about this whole fiasco.

Stop it, Zeph.

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Yes just do what massa says.

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Again, if any of you want to live in a society where police either don't exist or can just be ignored if you're "man" enough go ahead. Places like that exist in the world today. Unfortunately there is no cell signal from which to virtue signal on your smartphone. I also don't recommend bringing your smartphone, or anything really. You won't be in possession of it long.

There are flights from DXB to Somalia you should go.

He's talking about living under tyranny and wanting to own the same weapons as the army.

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America loses.

SAD.

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I don't think you're the same as Zeph, but every opposing viewpoint is met with character assassination immediately. There's a reason for that. Opposing views are to be dismissed. Conversation can't be had.

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Outside of his Bernie Sanders love he's a good listen.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Character assassination is a bit much.

Killer Mike makes sense in that you can't try to sell half the country on disarming while also telling them that a tyrannical government is coming for them.

Killer Mike sounds crazy when he says that white people are stalking out black children and luring them behind a building to murder them.

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Will you accept an AMEN???

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Nice.

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Yes, as a universal law, "obey their [lawful] orders" leads right to oppression. And unfortunately, rare is the occasion where a citizen on the receiving end of an unlawful order can show it to be unlawful before action is taken. Still, that's the way this whole Thing Of Ours operates, and practically speaking, Brown wasn't being ordered to stop filming police or to submit to a warrantless search, nor was he being deprived of his humanity and ordered to be placed in bondage (as you alluded to in the quote above) or to get on the boxcar. He was being lawfully detained by police and was told to remove his hands from his pockets, several times, and he refused, then he resisted the ensuing arrest. That does not warrant tasing, as I've said in this thread multiple times.

I will!

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He was referring to our favorite neighborhood watchman who gets a kick out of saying racist things since he was acquitted for stalking a kid and killing him when the kid started to kick his adult ass.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I saw his hands multiple times within the first 2 minutes of the video. The lone officer clearly wasn't afraid or he would have cuffed him or worse. When the mob of officers arrived that changed. They wanted a reason to fuck him up and he wasn't doing all he could not to give them one.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The under-funded and under-staffed police force was able to send 6 cars for a parking violation.

But they feared for their life so you have to excuse their actions.

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What relevance do you think this has? Police can't lawfully order him to get his hands out of his pockets because you saw his hands a few times in the video, is that what you think?

Cops love that. I'm not sure if it's to socialize or there is another reason. Usually they're just laughing and fraternizing but from what I have personally witnessed and from videos I've seen they occasionally come to whoop ass and make things worse.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The order to remove your hands from your pocket is out of fear for a weapon. That's completely understandable. After more than 8 minutes of being within inches of Brown and seeing his hands, how realistic was that fear? It was a cold night and as I said they were looking for a reason to kick his ass and he gave them one that many will see as legit.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

They hadn't searched his pockets, so they had no idea what was in his pockets when he placed his hands in them at about the 6-minute mark of the video. I'd say the fear at that point is reasonable, and the order lawful.

I don’t understand why he was able to shoot the police . I saw his hands multiple times early in the video .


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMTj0wT6Cs

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

As I pointed out yesterday, I've posted substance for all my criticisms of your reactionary heroes. If anything you're the one more resistant to any conversation because in response to such criticisms, you can't articulate a single reason to take hacks like Shapiro or Peterson seriously beyond "they may say crazy or hateful stuff sometimes, but by golly I still like 'em!"

Fair enough. His partner needs his ass kicked.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You're changing the conversation again. The point is that anytime an idea is suggested, rather than refuting the idea, you just attack them personally. If you're on the right side of an argument, then win the argument. Ad hominem attacks are usually launched because someone doesn't have a rebuttal to the person's argument. You're even doing it here by calling them my "reactionary heroes." If your response to every argument you disagree with is "I don't take that guy seriously!", you're basically just putting your fingers in your ears and throwing a fit.

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But the officers were close to him for MINUTES while seeing his hands, how could the fear that he will produce a weapon from his pockets be reasonable? Those cops must have been trying to goad the suspect into shooting them, right Nas?

It's also worth noting that the guy in BRogue's video had three felony priors and was out on bond on an attempted murder charge. Bond. For attempted murder. Oh the injustice.

You seem rather confused as to what an ad hom and what we were arguing over. Any insult is not equivalent to an ad hom.

In the first thread you defended Shapiro as someone worth taking seriously as an intellectual and extending charity towards, and I posted a bunch of reasons why I thought he wasn't a particularly deep thinker and how he most certainly doesn't extend the very discourse norms and charity you want extended to him to his own political opponents. In the second thread, I made a narrow point about Peterson being just as much of an obscurantist as the people he complains the most about, and that evidently triggered you to such an extent that you now had to mention me in a thread I wasn't even participating in.

In neither case were you saying Peterson or Shapiro made a rather good point about X and I responded that actually that point is bad simply because it was made by Shapiro or Peterson. That is what an ad hom dismissal would be, and one reason nothing like that has transpired is because you've still been unable to articulate anything Shapiro or Peterson have been particularly insightful about. You've just been whining about me daring to say negative things about them.

So Nas, can we agree that despite seeing his hands at some points, the officers in the Sterling Brown video made a reasonable, lawful request for Brown to remove his hands from his pockets?

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