They have been selling the rebuild for years. The true rebuild begins when Williams and Hahn are both gone.

One World Series Championship in my life-time doesn't cut it. The patience for this ball club ran out years ago.

I wont argue with you on the need for Williams to be gone. I think that is long overdue. But I dont think it is fair to lump Hahn in there just yet. I think he has done some nice things and deserves the chance to see it through.

In the past they have tried to rebuild on the fly. This is a different type of rebuild. They tore the house down and are putting it back up. No guarantee that it will succeed, but you have to give Hahn some credit for taking a new route.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Agree with that.

However, today's lineup featured two sub-.200 hitters, and Adam Engel wasn't one of them. It's frustrating in that even when they play well, they often still don't have a chance to win.

Agree with RFDC.

This ain't year 5 of a rebuild.

The rebuild started before last year. So it's a year and a half in.

They were trying to compete (and being shitty) for the 4 years before that.

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Also agree you can't lay blame with Hahn.

As recently as 2016 Kenny was saying he's ultimately in charge and he makes the call.

Though Hahn has overseen some terrible drafts too.

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This time they are not pretending to be competitive by signing high-priced FAs or trading for veterans. I'm willing to sit through this because I remember the mid to late 80s where being bad and smart drafting helped rebuild for the early 90s run and knowing that this farm system was barren because of Williams' drafting.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

The Sox's late 80s drafts literally could not have gone any better. The mid-80s.....not so much.

Nothing from 84-86...then starting in '87 you get McDowell, Ventura ('88), Thomas ('89), Fernandez & Bere ('90)

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

I think it ended with Ruffcorn. That was 91, I think. My god, they hyped the other guys, but they really, really hyped Ruffcorn.

No one named Ruffcorn is ever very good

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

It was Ruffcorn. He was hyped as the next great Sox SP; his debut was highly anticipated.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

This is when Kenny's fascination with all-tools guys like Courtney Hawkins comes back to bite Jerry in the ass. There's just not enough good young depth to finish the lineup. I remember this going to Cubs games in 2011/2012 where they had a similar issue, four automatic outs at the bottom of the lineup.

I think the hitting will eventually improve as guys like Moncada get more experience. But the big question mark is the young pitching. Did Hahn trade for (and draft) the right guys?

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Fullmer looks like a bullpen arm at best and Burger is recovering from an achilles. Anderson, Rodon, Collins have potential if they can figure stuff out. Not seeing any all-stars in his first round picks.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

Be careful. you are going to make someone upset

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Hahn has a job for life. Even smart fans make excuses for him. He is absolutely bulletproof.

Back then they had somebody who could draft and evaluate talent. Hahn has never come close to displaying an ability to do either.

Larry Himes drafted the core and then Ron Schueler took over and brought in the veteran FAs.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

Yeah,Walt! What the Fuck are they doing?



I guess tanking is OK if the end result is a World Series.

It's like getting f'ed up the ass in prison until you get released and find a job as a dishwasher somewhere.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Other sports teams have legends as Executive VPs, like Elway and the Broncos, former players who know what it takes to win. We have bleeping Kenny Williams, who had a lifetime batting average of .218. And if that isn't something to scratch your head about, you can easily judge his baseball IQ by looking at his disastrous FA signings with Peavy and Dunn. He has no eye for talent, and yet he's the captain of the ship under senile Reinsdorf. Like with the Bears, the best thing that could happen to the franchise is that ownership die and the White Sox be sold.

The effect of the rebuild on morale is TURRIBLE. Look at the quotes today in the Trib from pitcher, James Shields, in the "Losing His Patience" article, who said, "Frankly I don't really care about the rebuild right now. I care about winning. They keep talking about rebuild. I'm trying to win ballgames right now. Period. I don't like losing. We're losing ball games right now. They can keep talking about rebuild but at the end of the day we have to win ballgames right now." Basically, he is telling the White Sox front office to shove their rebuild up their ass. Good for him that he would take a stand.

As far as I'm concerned, I have zero faith in this organization to make the right decisions, let alone with a rebuild, because of the people they have in charge. Chicago sports radio should be shaming the White Sox every day, because they're a bleeping disgrace. They're not even a professional ball club. Not one person should go to the ballpark and pay money to see this team play. Let them go bankrupt for being such bleep-ups.

Shields won't be upset much longer because he will be traded to the Dodgers or another contender pretty soon. Have patience; Hahn needs time to rebuild the system and there are some promising young players on the team.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

STFU, Rube. You are the guy who thought Matt Barkley would be the best QB of the future for the Bears. You are an absolute moron. Stay out of White Sox business.

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I echo your opinions. I said early into the season that the team had the worst starting line-up in my memory and it does. Four decent bats in a line-up ain't gonna get it. And the "rebuild" itself I think is disjointed with quite a few guys that they obtained in the salary dump Reinny ordered a long way from ever being major league caliber.

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

But they still have Kopech/Robert/Elllooooyyyy/Collins/Dunning

And Moncada. And Lopez. (and hopefully Giolito)

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Giolito is broken. Maybe they can fix him but he looks nothing like he did in the second half of last year.
Moncada is teetering.
Lopez I like still.

Only Jimmymeatball could compare his favorite team winning the World Series and having 3 years in a row of playoff baseball to getting fucked in the ass

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

They do not have nearly enough promising young players in the entire system to be looking at putting even a .500 level team in 2-3 years. The present team has maybe 4 at best good hitters or even promising hitters on it. They do not have an outfield, a catcher, and a short-stop worth a shit. Out of a pitching staff of 12 pitchers, they have maybe 4 that are good or have the potential to be good.

And of those decent players, most of them will be traded before the year is over.

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

Lopez has the third highest xFIP in baseball. He is Giolito from last September. It's just starting to catch up with him now.