https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... li=BBnbfcL

seriously, donald. wrong fight to pick.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Just by chance I happened to listen to an Audiobook by Sonny Barger of the Hell's Angels last month. Audible felt like giving me a free audiobook and I was looking for something different.

While those guys still stick to the American made thing they admitted years ago they'd be better riding Asian bikes. Back in the day you could at least say you got a lot of chromed out parts with the Harley for the price you paid. Now most everything is plastic but the price hasn't changed. Plastic is fine but the price has to change. Harley cant change the price with labor costs so they opened another factory or two. And they made that decision long before the tariffs. Asia in particular is an untapped market for Harley with hundreds of millions of riders. It only makes sense.

Trump is an idiot but there is of course more to the story.

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"Mattress technology has come a long way"

- Dan Bernstein, 2016

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Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

i have no problem with harley globalizing and making their bikes similar to asians... they absolutely should, and there are plenty of products that people mainly buy for the name (craftsman, kleenex)

i have a big problem with the president blasting them for doing so.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Harley made a stupid business decision. And they made it way before the tariffs were even put into place. THey have cheapened their product yet held their price to the point where it is not competitive. They will lose in the foreign markets against the better made Japanese bikes that have a larger selection and better quality.

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

Harley's domestic sales decline has nothing to do with a cheapened product, it has everything to do with a customer base, that is quite literally dying in the domestic market.

Harley Davidson is a company that has experienced largely declining sales the past number of years as it relates to the US market. The prime consumers of it's products, white baby boomers are aging out of the Harley Davidson market. Put it more simply, it's core US customer is quite literally dying. (Sorry to break it to you, but it's not me speaking, just actuarial tables.)*


* This might be a point of interest for any other company, institution, or organization that receives a disproportionate amount of support, be it monetarily or otherwise, from the baby boom generation.

Who cares? There is no justification for a sitting president to tweet shit about a company doing something in its own self-interest. I don't even know how it's legal.

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I know zero about the motorcycle biz but would seem as though once made, they don't ever wear out. Would imagine the used Harley market is pretty strong? Like film cameras, people still use them to a degree but the market sure as hell doesn't need any more new ones.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

One Post knows.

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Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

my dad is friends with a large contingency of ex harley riders. they are all now in their 60's and have traded them in for big huge travel bikes. like goldwings. much quieter, they can talk to each other in headsets, listen to music, etc etc.

i'm not kidding when i say like hardly any of them ride harleys any more. i never really thought about it until is started seeing all this pres/harley stuff going on.

The old school bikers had a big must be an American bike and Harley was the only game in town for a long time. So of course the main base is ageing out and the younger kids want faster/cooler but you also have the Victory and Indian back in the picture.

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Elections have consequences.

The old school bikers had a big must be an American bike and Harley was the only game in town for a long time. So of course the main base is ageing out and the younger kids want faster/cooler but you also have the Victory and Indian back in the picture.

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Elections have consequences.

On the way up to Lake Arrowhead last week, we passed about 50 or so bikes on their way up the mountain. Their club was an American Legion affiliate. I'd guess that about 80-90% of the bikes were not Harleys.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

The imminent failure of Harley Davidson was going to happen with or without Trump, its just kind of serendipitous that their stories have become interwoven in this way. Or, if you're cynical, maybe Harley Davidson executives see an opportunity for excuse making.

Yeah. Let's celebrate American manufacturing losing to Asian countries! Because Trump?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Globalism bad! Why no Trump protect Harley Davidson!

I guess Harleys sort of appeal to me, which means the company is destined for Ch. 11 in the next five years.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I hardly see any young kids w/ Harley's on the road. What's their market? Old timers?

Do their motorcycles sell well?

Seems like the Japanese motorcycles seem just more cooler in design. Maybe they're cheaper too? I see most young ppl riding non-Harleys.

Hawaiins are Asian wannabes so of course they ride those crotch rockets.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

The preferred nomenclature is sport bikes.

Crotch rocket is only acceptable when proceeded by "new-fangled" and spoken in the voice of Hank Hill.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

Hawaii is 41% Asian

https://www.infoplease.com/us/comprehensive-census-data-state/demographic-statistics-78

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Absolutely. Young people, if they want to ride at all, dont want to cruise. They want go-fast bikes or have started their own cultures around cheap imports like Tomos Golden Bullets and Russian Urals. Which is odd because like Harley back in the day, those cultures require you to learn about your bike and wrench on it a lot. It was a point of pride back in the day that you had to know how to work on a bike to own a Harley. Shit was going to rattle off. There are still quality issues with with some models of Harley but the acceptance of that has changed. Nobody wants to put up with it anymore. Not even the 1% bikers.

And the weekend warriors who do like to cruise have long realized that the Honda's and BMW's are just better and cheaper with better warranties. The loaded $42,000 Harley touring bike has $10,000 worth of name tacked onto it and offers nothing over the Goldwing. Those Harley's are perfectly reliable and great bikes but you are paying at least $10k more for the name.

Harley also stopped making legacy models and that pissed a lot of people off. These were models that went back the the earliest days of American bike culture. Really uncomfortable bikes to ride back then and they couldn't figure out a way to modernize the ride while keeping the design faithful so they just axed them. A lot of old school guys who dont care about comfort started buying built from scratch bikes when they couldn't find those old models and that further hurt Harley.

_________________
"Mattress technology has come a long way"

- Dan Bernstein, 2016

Yeah. Legendary companies are one thing but this has become a kind of niche market. I'm sure that the old Harley bikes will retain a lot of value but this is not a company that has competed well and they will fail. Wonder how all of the old time bad ass "ANGELS" are doing these days? Worked with a guy once at Kaiser Steel out here. Nice guy. He was a COMPUTER PROGRAMMER of all things. Had the jacket and bike and all. From the ORIGINAL CLUB no less. The HELLS ANGELS of California, Fontana chapter:)

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

Harley fucked up by charging too much when there was enough competition that was just as good or better. It's still cool to own a Harley, but not ten grand cooler.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Honestly, the only people who still think Harley's are cool are European dad's who listen to Rio Reiser or Johnny Hallyday and drink Jack Daniels at insane markups. They would be better off manufacturing in Germany at least itd bring them closer to their last market.

This just isn’t even grounded in fact. Sure Harley might not be growing domestically, but a cursory look at the balance sheet shows there is no plausible near term scenario where Harley fails, bankruptcy, restructure, etc.

It is one thing to not be a growing company, it is entirely different to be on the cusp of imminent failure.

Exactly. A company breaking even is not in dire straights. The company I work at has a dunn and brownstone rating of 8. I am not joking.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

See post above, if you think Harley will “fail” you either cannot compute Arabic numbers, or you are a liar. Take your pick.

Never saw myself as a Harley rider, first two bikes were "new fangled crotch rockets", current is a sporty cruiser. (that's why my friends in the car club call me Cruiser). Lots of the guys who bought in the US Harley boom had no idea what they were getting into, and many of the bike sat unused. This glut of ten year old bikes with under 10K miles hurts the value of the brand new bikes well. Expensive to own (insurance, dealership maintenance, etc) and not convenient to use daily, with only a four month window around here for many guys. And, if the life partner doesn't like to ride, even less need for the bike. Sure, "Ass, grass or gas, nobody rides for free" sounds cool, but when she wants to take half your 401K with her when you kick her out for not riding, guys turn real soft. Or worse, she loves to ride and wants her own bike, BOOM, double the expenses, way more clothes, bangles, etc.

I will say that the new Harley one of my coworkers has looks cool! Right out of the WCC shop from the dealer, fat rear tire, pipes, patina paint job. Of course, he has $500 in jacket and helmet to match, etc.

My dad had a bike when we lived out west. I’m not sure if he hit it because he liked it or the gas crises but he sold it a few years after moving here. I barely remember it but his remark was it was either too cold or too rainy to ride consistently. I wonder if my mom leaned on him a bit with having two young boys as well but I think he’d admit to that finally.