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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:24 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The comparisons to other eras and how difficult life was is interesting. I mean because if we are grading hardship on a curve like that then I guess all white men need to shut the fuck up.


You really are brainwashed if you think that was even close to the argument. I made a very specific point about the value of being an American. It was too much for the usual suspects here so you got into a tizzy in your racism police secret meetings because racism was not denounced firmly and strongly enough and there was an attempt to explore a topic beyond saying -bad/good.

What?

Did you mean to say this to Rick? I just pointed out how when discussing Jim Crow you reference quality of life versus other times and how that would work vs white people who feel persecuted in 2018

Brainwashed by your post?

Im starting to think maybe you dont actually want actual nuanced discussions. You just want to keep repeating that everyone is incapable of it to prop yourself up as some beacon of realness.

Im here to have the honest discussion. Ready when you are.


I provided a "beacon of realness", but it was pounced upon as terrible- even during Jim Crow the majority of black people in the United States had a higher standard of living then most of rest of the world and most people throughout history. To me this does not mean Jim Crow was proper or the reason they had that standard. It just means the the American system brought some level of success to even the lowest on it. So we should carefully consider that when saying it's irredeemable and needs to be blown-up.

What country offers a greater opportunity for creating black millionaires and political leaders? And if the country were as irredeemable racist as claimed by many would that be the case?

Fair enough. I understand that is your point.

So it kinda makes 2018 white people or 2018 millionaires (Roseanne) look silly by comparson for their complaints, doesn't it?


What white people are complaining? You mean about how it's okay to openly say that white people are evil? Yeah, that's bad. It doesn't necessarily affect our quality of life, but it's blatant racism. I'll go Rick here: do you think that saying all white people are evil is racist?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:25 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The comparisons to other eras and how difficult life was is interesting. I mean because if we are grading hardship on a curve like that then I guess all white men need to shut the fuck up.


You really are brainwashed if you think that was even close to the argument. I made a very specific point about the value of being an American. It was too much for the usual suspects here so you got into a tizzy in your racism police secret meetings because racism was not denounced firmly and strongly enough and there was an attempt to explore a topic beyond saying -bad/good.

What?

Did you mean to say this to Rick? I just pointed out how when discussing Jim Crow you reference quality of life versus other times and how that would work vs white people who feel persecuted in 2018

Brainwashed by your post?

Im starting to think maybe you dont actually want actual nuanced discussions. You just want to keep repeating that everyone is incapable of it to prop yourself up as some beacon of realness.

Im here to have the honest discussion. Ready when you are.


I provided a "beacon of realness", but it was pounced upon as terrible- even during Jim Crow the majority of black people in the United States had a higher standard of living then most of rest of the world and most people throughout history. To me this does not mean Jim Crow was proper or the reason they had that standard. It just means the the American system brought some level of success to even the lowest on it. So we should carefully consider that when saying it's irredeemable and needs to be blown-up.

What country offers a greater opportunity for creating black millionaires and political leaders? And if the country were as irredeemable racist as claimed by many would that be the case?

Fair enough. I understand that is your point.

So it kinda makes 2018 white people or 2018 millionaires (Roseanne) look silly by comparson for their complaints, doesn't it?


White people is a broad description. I would say the white people in the Ukraine would rather be here in the United State living in the same economic conditions as our poverty line.

As for Roseanne- I don't really care about her. It was mostly a point about what "racism" has become.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:26 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The comparisons to other eras and how difficult life was is interesting. I mean because if we are grading hardship on a curve like that then I guess all white men need to shut the fuck up.


You really are brainwashed if you think that was even close to the argument. I made a very specific point about the value of being an American. It was too much for the usual suspects here so you got into a tizzy in your racism police secret meetings because racism was not denounced firmly and strongly enough and there was an attempt to explore a topic beyond saying -bad/good.

What?

Did you mean to say this to Rick? I just pointed out how when discussing Jim Crow you reference quality of life versus other times and how that would work vs white people who feel persecuted in 2018

Brainwashed by your post?

Im starting to think maybe you dont actually want actual nuanced discussions. You just want to keep repeating that everyone is incapable of it to prop yourself up as some beacon of realness.

Im here to have the honest discussion. Ready when you are.


I provided a "beacon of realness", but it was pounced upon as terrible- even during Jim Crow the majority of black people in the United States had a higher standard of living then most of rest of the world and most people throughout history. To me this does not mean Jim Crow was proper or the reason they had that standard. It just means the the American system brought some level of success to even the lowest on it. So we should carefully consider that when saying it's irredeemable and needs to be blown-up.

What country offers a greater opportunity for creating black millionaires and political leaders? And if the country were as irredeemable racist as claimed by many would that be the case?

Fair enough. I understand that is your point.

So it kinda makes 2018 white people or 2018 millionaires (Roseanne) look silly by comparson for their complaints, doesn't it?


What white people are complaining? You mean about how it's okay to openly say that white people are evil? Yeah, that's bad. It doesn't necessarily affect our quality of life, but it's blatant racism. I'll go Rick here: do you think that saying all white people are evil is racist?

Its racist and very dumb.

Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:28 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
In the original I said standard of living, which would mean material goods. But to go into the unable to be measured- the person in Vietnam was subject to French imperial rule. They had no rights. It was similar if not more severe to Jim Crow. So that's not for me to judge. They were also in the midst of a civil war between fractions within the country and with the French colonial army. Tens if not hundreds of thousands were dying every year.

Want to re-think that?
You seem to be adding things to the question now. It's now about civil wars. I doubt there is much difference between French imperial rule and rules that heavily restricted your rights.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:32 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


That's in response to people constantly clamoring that white people are evil and have destroyed the world. Should white people just sit back and take that?

Here's a notion: how about we judge people individually and not based on their skin color for ALL races? I thought that's what the goal of the civil rights movement was. But now it's acceptable to talk shit about all whites, and if the whites respond they're just "complaining"?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:34 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


That's in response to people constantly clamoring that white people are evil and have destroyed the world. Should white people just sit back and take that?

Here's a notion: how about we judge people individually and not based on their skin color for ALL races? I thought that's what the goal of the civil rights movement was. But now it's acceptable to talk shit about all whites, and if the whites respond they're just "complaining"?

That's just selection bias though. Of course there are people that talk badly about white people just like there are people, including our President, who talk bad about non-whites. If you are going to live your life getting offended by the Julie DiCaro types then you'll end up as jaded and mad at the world as they are.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:35 pm 
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I think it's extremely awesome that Douchebag and his friends gossip about what a terrible poster I am.


I stick up for you! A ringing endorsement I’m sure.

So the Facebook group is basically the No Homers Club that Kid Cairo's board was supposed to be. Let's get every modality possible. Is there gonna be a Discord chat for people to shit-talk me, too? How about a Twitter hashtag?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:38 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


That's in response to people constantly clamoring that white people are evil and have destroyed the world. Should white people just sit back and take that?

Here's a notion: how about we judge people individually and not based on their skin color for ALL races? I thought that's what the goal of the civil rights movement was. But now it's acceptable to talk shit about all whites, and if the whites respond they're just "complaining"?

You are opening this up beyond the scope of what I was discussing with WFR (comparing quality of life across different eras), but certainly that would be best.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:44 pm 
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There is going to be a time in the future. Not likely while I am still alive but in the sooner rather than later future. When that time comes there is going to be a big bunch of people not really knowing what the hell to do. You see at this time racism will get to a point where it is quite rare and all but done. Further there will be more non white than white people.

What will happen? Not sure. At least it will be different than it is now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:45 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
There is going to be a time in the future. Not likely while I am still alive but in the sooner rather than later future. When that time comes there is going to be a big bunch of people not really knowing what the hell to do. You see at this time racism will get to a point where it is quite rare and all but done. Further there will be more non white than white people.

What will happen? Not sure. At least it will be different than it is now.

Probably start hating each other over hair or eye color.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


That's in response to people constantly clamoring that white people are evil and have destroyed the world. Should white people just sit back and take that?

Here's a notion: how about we judge people individually and not based on their skin color for ALL races? I thought that's what the goal of the civil rights movement was. But now it's acceptable to talk shit about all whites, and if the whites respond they're just "complaining"?

That's just selection bias though. Of course there are people that talk badly about white people just like there are people, including our President, who talk bad about non-whites. If you are going to live your life getting offended by the Julie DiCaro types then you'll end up as jaded and mad at the world as they are.


I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think. I'm not saying they're a majority or anything, but they are a large segment, and they are also the ones educating our youth.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:48 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:

I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think.

If there were, we'd all be gasping for air!


Sorry, that was mean.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:48 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:

I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think.

If there were, we'd all be gasping for air!


Sorry, that was mean.



More than mean.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:49 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


That's in response to people constantly clamoring that white people are evil and have destroyed the world. Should white people just sit back and take that?

Here's a notion: how about we judge people individually and not based on their skin color for ALL races? I thought that's what the goal of the civil rights movement was. But now it's acceptable to talk shit about all whites, and if the whites respond they're just "complaining"?

That's just selection bias though. Of course there are people that talk badly about white people just like there are people, including our President, who talk bad about non-whites. If you are going to live your life getting offended by the Julie DiCaro types then you'll end up as jaded and mad at the world as they are.


I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think. I'm not saying they're a majority or anything, but they are a large segment, and they are also the ones educating our youth.

Well you consider me one so you may overstate the prominence.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:49 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:

I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think.

If there were, we'd all be gasping for air!


Sorry, that was mean.


Reported to management.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Many white people are complaining though. So much so that there is a hashtag movement saying #itsoktobewhite


That's in response to people constantly clamoring that white people are evil and have destroyed the world. Should white people just sit back and take that?

Here's a notion: how about we judge people individually and not based on their skin color for ALL races? I thought that's what the goal of the civil rights movement was. But now it's acceptable to talk shit about all whites, and if the whites respond they're just "complaining"?

That's just selection bias though. Of course there are people that talk badly about white people just like there are people, including our President, who talk bad about non-whites. If you are going to live your life getting offended by the Julie DiCaro types then you'll end up as jaded and mad at the world as they are.


I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think. I'm not saying they're a majority or anything, but they are a large segment, and they are also the ones educating our youth.

Well you consider me one so you may overstate the prominence.


I don't think you are one, but I think you defend their behavior.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:51 pm 
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I thought I was more obsessed with labels than anyone you've ever met?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:

I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think.

If there were, we'd all be gasping for air!


Sorry, that was mean.



More than mean.

I've scrapped like 30 fat jokes about her.

Had a doozy about her looking like Michelle Wolf's before picture, but opted not to use it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I thought I was more obsessed with labels than anyone you've ever met?


:lol: What is with your sensitivity lately?

I do think you like to apply labels, but I don't think you're on Twitter @'ing Matt Damon about his misogyny.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:

I think there are more Julie DiCaro-types out there than you think.

If there were, we'd all be gasping for air!


Sorry, that was mean.



More than mean.

:lol:

It's in may ways true, though. Many are teachers and they have already affected our culture. If people are more tolerant, I'm glad, but I'm afraid that they are teaching reflexivity instead of reflection. They also have no idea how to talk about the one thing that binds everyone in every complex society (class or its equivalent). It seems like they are teaching you to recognize that certain words and certain ideas are inherently bad while certain words and ideas are inherently good. Not sure people can discuss things any better than they could in 1980.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:01 pm 
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It is funny that no one heeded the warnings when all of this sensitivity and speech policing got the seeds sown. Yes, it was back in the preschools around 1995. It was there where the people rising up to rule the world learned that feelings were everything, there will be no bullying, scores don't matter and all of that other silliness that is where we are at now. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
In the original I said standard of living, which would mean material goods. But to go into the unable to be measured- the person in Vietnam was subject to French imperial rule. They had no rights. It was similar if not more severe to Jim Crow. So that's not for me to judge. They were also in the midst of a civil war between fractions within the country and with the French colonial army. Tens if not hundreds of thousands were dying every year.

Want to re-think that?
You seem to be adding things to the question now. It's now about civil wars. I doubt there is much difference between French imperial rule and rules that heavily restricted your rights.


War is a pretty standard condition in the rest of the world outside of the United States since 1865. I certainly considered that when making the comparison. I would say that war is the number one factor in determining quality of life for someone. During the first half of the 20th century the majority of people were living as imperial subjects to major European peoples. They had no rights. And the citizens of all of the major European powers lived on the battlegrounds for the two biggest wars in human history or various civil wars.

I don't know how many people were lynched in the United States of any race- it was a fairly common practice though. I have seen estimates of 30,000, and many of those probably were criminals. It something people did for "justice" at the time. To place this into perspective as many as 1 million Germans starved to death from 1916-1918 due to a naval blockade. There were 40,000 people killed in the United Kingdom during the Blitz alone.

During the second half of the 20th century the majority of the world was involved in some sort of civil war or under Soviet rule or sphere of influence. The entire idea of rights for most people was not considered let alone something debated politically or in the courts because there was no system in place. It was authoritarian rule or civil war anarchy for at least a large period of time.

Nothing has changed from my original argument by the way.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:02 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I thought I was more obsessed with labels than anyone you've ever met?


:lol: What is with your sensitivity lately?

I do think you like to apply labels, but I don't think you're on Twitter @'ing Matt Damon about his misogyny.

That's just the best example. There has been a lot of labeling by you about me that closely mirrors the complaints about the evil SJW's.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:03 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
There is going to be a time in the future. Not likely while I am still alive but in the sooner rather than later future. When that time comes there is going to be a big bunch of people not really knowing what the hell to do. You see at this time racism will get to a point where it is quite rare and all but done. Further there will be more non white than white people.

What will happen? Not sure. At least it will be different than it is now.


When this happens do you want to be around if the narrative is that white people are evil tormentors who have held us down for generations?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:05 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
pittmike wrote:
There is going to be a time in the future. Not likely while I am still alive but in the sooner rather than later future. When that time comes there is going to be a big bunch of people not really knowing what the hell to do. You see at this time racism will get to a point where it is quite rare and all but done. Further there will be more non white than white people.

What will happen? Not sure. At least it will be different than it is now.


When this happens do you want to be around if the narrative is that white people are evil tormentors who have held us down for generations?


Hell no. Maybe I better encourage interracial grand kids?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:07 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
It is funny that no one heeded the warnings when all of this sensitivity and speech policing got the seeds sown. Yes, it was back in the preschools around 1995. It was there where the people rising up to rule the world learned that feelings were everything, there will be no bullying, scores don't matter and all of that other silliness that is where we are at now. :P

Way before then. I played t-ball in 1985. Every kid got a trophy and every single trophy said MVP.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
War is a pretty standard condition in the rest of the world outside of the United States since 1865. I certainly considered that when making the comparison. I would say that war is the number one factor in determining quality of life for someone. During the first half of the 20th century the majority of people were living as imperial subjects to major European peoples. They had no rights. And the citizens of all of the major European powers lived on the battlegrounds for the two biggest wars in human history or various civil wars.
If your point was that people living under Jim Crow had it better than people who were living in an area with an active civil war then that was one of the most obvious points someone could ever make. I think it was a convenient way to try and walk back your comment some. What's next, people under Jim Crow had it better than people who lived on a volcano that was erupting?
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I don't know how many people were lynched in the United States of any race- it was a fairly common practice though. I have seen estimates of 30,000, and many of those probably were criminals. It something people did for "justice" at the time. To place this into perspective as many as 1 million Germans starved to death from 1916-1918 due to a naval blockade. There were 40,000 people killed in the United Kingdom during the Blitz alone.
What point are you making here? I'm just so confused as to what exactly these kind of things are supposed to mean. Everyone knows that there were worse things than Jim Crow. You seem to be approaching the straw man that it was the worst thing in human civilization.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
During the second half of the 20th century the majority of the world was involved in some sort of civil war or under Soviet rule or sphere of influence. The entire idea of rights for most people was not considered let alone something debated politically or in the courts because there was no system in place. It was authoritarian rule or civil war anarchy for at least a large period of time.

Nothing has changed from my original argument by the way.
As I've said, you can't ever complain about how white people are being treated any more. Yes, this will be a meme. "People living in a civil war have it worse!".

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
War is a pretty standard condition in the rest of the world outside of the United States since 1865. I certainly considered that when making the comparison. I would say that war is the number one factor in determining quality of life for someone. During the first half of the 20th century the majority of people were living as imperial subjects to major European peoples. They had no rights. And the citizens of all of the major European powers lived on the battlegrounds for the two biggest wars in human history or various civil wars.
If your point was that people living under Jim Crow had it better than people who were living in an area with an active civil war then that was one of the most obvious points someone could ever make. I think it was a convenient way to try and walk back your comment some. What's next, people under Jim Crow had it better than people who lived on a volcano that was erupting?
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I don't know how many people were lynched in the United States of any race- it was a fairly common practice though. I have seen estimates of 30,000, and many of those probably were criminals. It something people did for "justice" at the time. To place this into perspective as many as 1 million Germans starved to death from 1916-1918 due to a naval blockade. There were 40,000 people killed in the United Kingdom during the Blitz alone.
What point are you making here? I'm just so confused as to what exactly these kind of things are supposed to mean. Everyone knows that there were worse things than Jim Crow. You seem to be approaching the straw man that it was the worst thing in human civilization.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
During the second half of the 20th century the majority of the world was involved in some sort of civil war or under Soviet rule or sphere of influence. The entire idea of rights for most people was not considered let alone something debated politically or in the courts because there was no system in place. It was authoritarian rule or civil war anarchy for at least a large period of time.

Nothing has changed from my original argument by the way.
As I've said, you can't ever complain about how white people are being treated any more. Yes, this will be a meme. "People living in a civil war have it worse!".


I am not walking back anything. As you proved with your response about a villager in Vietnam you did not think about the implications of what that meant.

Do you deny any of the facts as presented ? I see you are already uncomfortable so you had resort back to this is dumb. This is bad.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:30 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I am not walking back anything. As you proved with your response about a villager in Vietnam you did not think about the implications of what that meant.
There was no reason to assume your very general statement about a villager in Vietnam meant they were in an active war zone.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you deny any of the facts as presented ? I see you are already uncomfortable so you had resort back to this is dumb. This is bad.
I just looked through my post. I didn't use the word dumb or bad in it.

There is nothing to deny. It's a straw man argument that anyone thinks Jim Crow as the worst thing in the history of the world. It's not even the worst thing in United States history.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:13 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
In the original I said standard of living, which would mean material goods. But to go into the unable to be measured- the person in Vietnam was subject to French imperial rule. They had no rights. It was similar if not more severe to Jim Crow. So that's not for me to judge. They were also in the midst of a civil war between fractions within the country and with the French colonial army. Tens if not hundreds of thousands were dying every year.

Want to re-think that?
You seem to be adding things to the question now. It's now about civil wars. I doubt there is much difference between French imperial rule and rules that heavily restricted your rights.


War is a pretty standard condition in the rest of the world outside of the United States since 1865. I certainly considered that when making the comparison. I would say that war is the number one factor in determining quality of life for someone. During the first half of the 20th century the majority of people were living as imperial subjects to major European peoples. They had no rights. And the citizens of all of the major European powers lived on the battlegrounds for the two biggest wars in human history or various civil wars.

I don't know how many people were lynched in the United States of any race- it was a fairly common practice though. I have seen estimates of 30,000, and many of those probably were criminals. It something people did for "justice" at the time. To place this into perspective as many as 1 million Germans starved to death from 1916-1918 due to a naval blockade. There were 40,000 people killed in the United Kingdom during the Blitz alone.

During the second half of the 20th century the majority of the world was involved in some sort of civil war or under Soviet rule or sphere of influence. The entire idea of rights for most people was not considered let alone something debated politically or in the courts because there was no system in place. It was authoritarian rule or civil war anarchy for at least a large period of time.

Nothing has changed from my original argument by the way.


SO now we've resorted to cherry picking various world wide atrocities in an effort to suggest that blacks during Jim Crow didn't really have it all that hard. NOthing that you have posted anywhere supports the notion that blacks under Jim Crow had it "better than 99% of the rest of the world". NOt one post

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