I really don't think there is a real movement to redistribute wealth. Sanders talks about inequality but I don't think that there was anything in his platform designed to redistribute wealth.

I wish that there was something concrete in place but I don't think that we've reached the point where people deem it to be necessary.

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Redistribution huh? Nice.

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Elections have consequences.

you disagree with Tall Midget's take on capitalism?


The threat of an anti-capitalist revolution forced the ruling elite of the 1930s to adopt socialist measures as a strategy for preserving the capitalist order. Unadulterated "liberal" capitalism cannot survive in a democratic society--capitalism requires some form of redistributive mechanisms to save it from itself.

Redistribution is a broad term. LTG in my opinion was not using it the same way as TM.

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Elections have consequences.

I find it suitably masculine.

In what way was i using it? Redistribution is redestribution

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Too many e's

I told you. Mopping up.

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Is it redistribution or trying to make sure everyone's got a realistic shot?

Depends on your starting point.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I guess everyone getting a shot is the goal? Or should be?

Universal Healthcare would help a lot. It would eliminate that shitty "30 hours a week makes an employee part-time and renders them ineligible for Healthcare" bullshit. As would wages bumping up, which low unemployment should help take care of.

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Probably time to frame it a little less in terms of "shots." Let's concentrate on taking care of the sick and the old, fixing the roads, getting clean drinking water.

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I am all for figuring out a way to spend society’s resources in a better way. I’d like to point out a few things.

The Federal Government has $20T in on balance sheet debt. It has unfunded liabilities estimated to be about $75T from Social Security and Medicare. It runs annual deficits in the hundreds of billions. This scam is able to be perpetuated because the U.S. dollar is the reserve currency. These sad numbers are replicated to a lesser extent at the state and local level. Meaning, we are already over redistrubiting and over promising the country’s income to health care, pensions, defense, schools, and debt service.

You could reallocate current spending, but ultimately you need a lot more revenues just to get us to breakeven from decades of spending beyond on our means.

In terms of additional taxes, we could go there. I am a fairly typical example of where the government would have to go to get more revenue. In a normal year, somewhere between 35-40% of my annual income goes to taxes.
30% income taxes
5% payroll taxes (thank goodness Fica is capped still)
4% real estate taxes


How much more do you want? It is a serious question. Do I owe 50%? 60%? Give me the number I need to pay. I will pay and simply ask that you never request more than that amount. And a decade on, you will realize there are still rich and poor. And schools will still not properly educate our children. And governments will spend every dime and more. We have a cultural problem of living beyond our means, and it is fully reflected in the way our governments operate.

The inequality is sickening. Faith in government or the markets to fix it is also flawed. Maybe universal health care and universal income would correct a big part of the problem. I don’t know anymore.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

All of that affects the opportunities people have and what they can do with it. Health is a big one.

The uptick to luxury? Such an awful trend. Hard to fight on all levels, too--parental, state, national. So engrained in the culture.

What are some that you think would work? (I'm actually asking, not attacking. Attasking.) I wonder how you would sell that to voters.

Health care and education are two things I'm willing to involve government on because they positively impact society. I'm not saying I want either one to be free. But those are things we should help provide to children to give them a shot in life. The problem is and always will be how we do it. The Department of Ed seems like a great idea until you realize that our education has declined ever since it was formed. Maybe education is better as a local endeavor. Either way, CH is gonna throw a hissy fit.

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I've been reading about Modern Monetary Theory and a lot of it seems to be about fighting the fallacy that the government is just a household budget writ large, i.e., you can't compare maxing out a credit card to how the federal government handles its money.

Also, if you got people to stop buying crap they don't need, what would that do for the rest of the economy? I'm sure it's great if one person can beat the game and not subscribe to the American culture of overconsumption, but if everyone beats the game, then what?

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It's all a population growth bubble. There are already probably too many people for this planet to sustain long-term but there isn't an economic system on the entire right-left spectrum that can cope with stagnant or declining population. The Japanese appear certain to tread into these waters in the future, and maybe from there a playbook can be devised, but socialism/capitalism/communism/junta/whatever...all of political-economic systems are doomed. Fighting between socialism and capitalism is like fighting between two different ways of getting to the same place.

I was under impression education is a local endeavor and DofEd is focused on ensuring access and funding?

The vast majority of funding comes locally, with some from the Dept of Ed, as I understand it. I was speaking more to the standards and the bureacracy. We still spend a ton of money on the bureacracy, I'm sure, but what value does it provide? Maybe it does, but the numbers say otherwise.

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Dennis it is no joke that some here feel 75% of your income is a good starting point.

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Elections have consequences.

denisdman is not a billionaire. He lives in the real-good-ass part of West Dundee. We're talking about billionaires and corporations here.

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You forget sales taxes. Sorry.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

If aggregate studies are to believed, I am in the top 3% of income but much lower in terms of wealth because of my age. I am living the so called American dream. I should pay a lot in taxes to support a society that allowed me to get where I am at. I believe in limited government, but my neighbors do not. As such, I choose to live by the decision of the majority.

West Dundee is decidedly blue collar, and yes I live in the section where the top income folks reside. I was frankly stunned when I moved here from Schaumburg at the struggles of the folks in our congregation. It was completely shocking to me when the subprime crisis hit how many of these folks were living beyond their means.

There is not enough money to take from billionaires and corporations to pay for the things Bernie wants. Last I checked, corporate income taxes were less than 10% of government revenues and that was when the U.S. had the highest corporate tax rate. There are not enough billionaires, and keep in mind their incomes are much lower than their wealth. You’d have to have a wealth tax to get at their money.

We would all have to pay more.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I guess everyone else can see the doctor without financial ruin except us

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RR, I didn’t forget sales tax or license fees and the rest. I was just estimating...

There’s also hidden taxes like tariffs and the employer portion of my payroll tax that we all forget are paid on our behalf.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Indeed and we pay twice as much as the next closest country for this health care system. It is sad.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Well trickle down won’t work so let’s just take it.

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Elections have consequences.

Maybe people shouldn't be so unbelievably unhealthy.