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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:49 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If you hired a contractor to paint your entire house under a contract, and then he asked for more money after finishing 4/5 of the house, you would be pissed.
Elmhurst Steve only paints 3/5 of the house and then asks for more money.


Yup. And he only paints with white.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:50 am 
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denisdman wrote:
If you hired a contractor to paint your entire house under a contract, and then he asked for more money after finishing 4/5 of the house, you would be pissed. But that is not the exact situation in the NFL. Under their rules, you as the homeowner could fire the guy and not pay the rest of his contract. So it's a warped world.

Both sides agreed to this deal under collective bargaining. Both sides seem to hate certain aspects of it, which probably means it is a pretty fair labor agreement. And everyone is making a lot of money.

Right and as long as NFL contracts can be voided, players will hold out. It's their only leverage.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:53 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If you hired a contractor to paint your entire house under a contract, and then he asked for more money after finishing 4/5 of the house, you would be pissed. But that is not the exact situation in the NFL. Under their rules, you as the homeowner could fire the guy and not pay the rest of his contract. So it's a warped world.

Both sides agreed to this deal under collective bargaining. Both sides seem to hate certain aspects of it, which probably means it is a pretty fair labor agreement. And everyone is making a lot of money.

Right and as long as NFL contracts can be voided, players will hold out. It's their only leverage.


You're spot on. The system is what it is, and I take comfort that both sides agreed to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:53 am 
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whether it is realistic with how contracts work or not does not change the fact that when you sign your name to a contract and then later cry foul and refuse to go to work citing unfair pay, you are a douchebag.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:55 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
whether it is realistic with how contracts work or not does not change the fact that when you sign your name to a contract and then later cry foul and refuse to go to work citing unfair pay, you are a douchebag.


Except that ownership signs those contracts too and cuts the player before the contracts are finished. Sure, when a player holds out, fans are going to be pissed just like they get pissed when ownership appears too cheap to spend money on free agents. The public relations side is a different issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:57 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
whether it is realistic with how contracts work or not does not change the fact that when you sign your name to a contract and then later cry foul and refuse to go to work citing unfair pay, you are a douchebag.


Just to be clear, when owners cut players with time left on their contracts you think they’re douchebags too?


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:02 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
whether it is realistic with how contracts work or not does not change the fact that when you sign your name to a contract and then later cry foul and refuse to go to work citing unfair pay, you are a douchebag.


Just to be clear, when owners cut players with time left on their contracts you think they’re douchebags too?


without being an expert on NFL contracts and the wording contained within them, if ownership breaks the terms of the contract as signed then yes, i would agree to that statement. If their ability to cut or void contracts is clearly indicated within he contract they both sign, then no, I would not agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Julio Jones signed the contract. Play it out.

This isn't signing with management. This is supporting a signed agreement. If the NFL tried to not pay the player per the terms of the contract, I'd have a problem with that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:15 pm 
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If the owners can cut a player (unlike MLB, NHL, or NBA) then I don't have a problem with the player sitting out here.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:15 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Julio Jones signed the contract. Play it out.

This isn't signing with management. This is supporting a signed agreement. If the NFL tried to not pay the player per the terms of the contract, I'd have a problem with that too.

Every team knows that players can and will hold out if they feel like they have leverage. Both sides know that when the deal is agreed to. It's just part of the process now.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:15 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Julio Jones signed the contract. Play it out.

This isn't signing with management. This is supporting a signed agreement. If the NFL tried to not pay the player per the terms of the contract, I'd have a problem with that too.

The NFL actually can do this. Unlike the other leagues, the contracts are not guaranteed.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:16 pm 
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The fact that the team can fine them a miniscule amount essentially recognizes its a players right to hold out if the player deems the contract is no longer valid. At that points its a pissing match to see who blinks first.

The end result is the fan loses, but I'll never fault the player. They are essentially trading away decades of their life for my amusement. Get what you can get.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
IMU wrote:
Julio Jones signed the contract. Play it out.

This isn't signing with management. This is supporting a signed agreement. If the NFL tried to not pay the player per the terms of the contract, I'd have a problem with that too.

The NFL actually can do this. Unlike the other leagues, the contracts are not guaranteed.

I understand the NFL perfectly. The contract includes guaranteed money. Jones signed the contract that says he will be playing for $10M this season. Play for the $10M.

The Falcons can't cut him. They can't choose to play him this season but only pay him $3M.

Jones can retire. He can choose to walk away from the contract the same way the team can. But neither team nor player should decide that the salary should be different than $10M.

If Jones wanted more than the $47M guarantee, then he missed his chance to get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:38 pm 
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The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.


Spoiler alert, they’re going to raise ticket prices anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:53 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.


Spoiler alert, they’re going to raise ticket prices anyway.


Correct, the opportunity cost isn't higher ticket prices. Its a loss of depth as they aren't able to sign player X next year for cheaper play Y. Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Imo he's paid accordingly or close enough..this isn't a 3rd year guy getting 250 rushes a year and getting paid 950k. I usually side with the player..not in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:03 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


That was the Mike Glennon argument (who cares, it's just the McCaskey's money and has no effect on the team).

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.

A person's favorite football team's W/L% has no bearing on a person's life, unless they have some issues that should be addressed through couch time or electric shock therapy.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


That was the Mike Glennon argument (who cares, it's just the McCaskey's money and has no effect on the team).

Were the Bears cheated out of a playoff run or Super Bowl berth by having Mike Glennon on the team?

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


That was the Mike Glennon argument (who cares, it's just the McCaskey's money and has no effect on the team).

Were the Bears cheated out of a playoff run or Super Bowl berth by having Mike Glennon on the team?


It didn't help.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


That was the Mike Glennon argument (who cares, it's just the McCaskey's money and has no effect on the team).


I think its the exact opposite of that though. Wasting 15 million on Glennon was wasted pie that could have been reallocated else where. In the falcons case, giving Julio more pie makes more sense than upgrading a back up tightend or depth Oline player.


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.

A person's favorite football team's W/L% has no bearing on a person's life, unless they have some issues that should be addressed through couch time or electric shock therapy.

Disagree. FF talking shit can lead to depression.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


That was the Mike Glennon argument (who cares, it's just the McCaskey's money and has no effect on the team).

Were the Bears cheated out of a playoff run or Super Bowl berth by having Mike Glennon on the team?


It didn't help.

Okay, they were not then.

Not seeing the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:14 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.

A person's favorite football team's W/L% has no bearing on a person's life, unless they have some issues that should be addressed through couch time or electric shock therapy.

Disagree. FF talking shit can lead to depression.

Damnit ... hard to argue.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:15 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If you are a Falcons fan, it could have short-term effect of hurting your team's performance if he sits out. Long-term, if Jones is successful in extorting more money, eventually that will translate to higher ticket prices.


Spoiler alert, they’re going to raise ticket prices anyway.

:lol:

Self checkout is keeping prices low!


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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:16 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Its one pie, Julio just wants more of it.


That was the Mike Glennon argument (who cares, it's just the McCaskey's money and has no effect on the team).


I think its the exact opposite of that though. Wasting 15 million on Glennon was wasted pie that could have been reallocated else where. In the falcons case, giving Julio more pie makes more sense than upgrading a back up tightend or depth Oline player.


Point taken, but I think at some level it does end up with ownership taking a hit and looking to cut corners, even if that means selling RC instead of Coca Cola at Soldier Field.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
The douchebags are the people upset by something like this particularly since it has ZERO effect on their life.


This

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:39 pm 
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I don't think anyone here is actually upset about it. It's just something to bullshit about.

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