I hate this so much. "We won't be good next year" is garbage. It was garbage that they punted this year. I understood 2017, and really it's great that they got Madrigal out of it, but enough is enough. It's time to start winning or this can spiral into a muck. They had great players the first half this decade and it got them nowhere because the team was listless. Keeping players in the minors for no good reason threatens to recreate that nightmare again.

I am not happy about Eloy being in the minors, but I do not think we are in a dire situation.

Everything in for 2020. 18 and 19 are off the board already.

" In my experience as a coach and teacher, players who have been successful at every level have a major mental difficulty when they struggle and some of that is teams advancing them too fast."

After 5 years in the minors, I think Eloy will be OK. One more minute down there where 95% of them are failures, won't do him one bit of good. The lions should be with lions, not with housecats.

This thread needs a good Roznering.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Will. Not. Happen.

Has. Not. Happened.

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+1

It has already done so.

It's funny an owner whose biggest flaw to MANY is unshakable loyalty is so reviled when that trait anywhere else would be adored.

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It is a flaw methinks when you are loyal to schmucks.

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

There's no justifiable reason to not try to compete next season. It's been long enough.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

patience is definitely a hard virtue for fans of teams.

Wasnt it pretty well stated/known going into this deal that 2020 was going to be the realistic date to be competitive?

It is asking quite a lot of those young guys to all be ready to go and lead this team next year?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Not only that, other than Cleveland that division is shit. Set an interim goal of going 30-24 against Detroit, Minnesota, and KC and setting yourselves up as the clear #2 in the division and an attractive place for a couple of good free agents. Even if you end up 72-90.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

It is, but when you have a guy like Eloy who has clearly been an MLB hitter for the better part of two months now, he deserves to be up. At least with the whole Bryant thing, you knew by mid-April he was going to be the Cubs everyday 3rd baseman.

Here is what should happen. You bring up the guys that are ready and have them on the Opening Day roster in 2019. At this point, that appears to be Kopech, Cease, Dunning (if healthy), Eloy, Rutherford, and possibly Madrigal. If the team doesn't compete with those guys, then so be it. There is simply no reason to have AAAA guys who Keyser loved like Trayce Thompson, Charlie Tildson, Ryan LaMarre, Chris Volstad and the like playing a single game for the Sox next season. If the young guys play great and the team wins ~85 games and competes for a Wild Card next season, awesome. If they struggle and they win ~75 games, then at least they got the experience and should be ready go to for it all in 2020....with even more guys coming up to help.

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I dont necessarily disagree with most of that. But IMO you want to maintain control of a guy like Eloy for as long as possible and if you can hold him off for a few months to ensure you get him in his prime for an additional year you would want to do that.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Teams jump 20+ wins all the time now.

I don't think it's asking a lot to put a competitive team out there after two years of intentionally tanking and a decade overall of losing. That's not really being impatient.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The only thing I can imagine is they want to have the best possible pick for next year's draft. Maybe he is up once that is further clarified?

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Elections have consequences.

Yeah they should've improved from last year to this year. Because then the improvement from around 65 to 80 wins would've made the eventual needed jump to 90-95 wins a bit easier.

Instead they regressed this year. Which I thought would be impossible.

Eloy will tear both ACLs in a game in Charlotte later this month and forever be ruined.

Cease will break his arm like Dave Dravecky.

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Especially looking at Atlanta and Philly

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Sure maybe all the young guys are ready and they do well next year and surprise people. That would be good.

But to have that as the expectation for next year is a little premature and setting yourself up to be disappointed. Hahn and the team need some time to get this thing righted.

Expect another year of struggle and growth from the young guys. Then expect them to be competitive/good in 2020 and if not then throw all hell at Hahn and Company.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I don't expect them to ever be good as long as Hahn and Williams are around. But Hahn doesn't need more time. He's had more than enough time to "get this thing righted" that he himself helped wrong.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

A lie isn't really a lie as long as you believe it.

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The 2019 Sox could win 20 more games than this year's Sox and still be under .500

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If that is your expectation then what does it really matter?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yeah they should've had at least 75 wins this year. That's with young guys like Moncada, Yolmer, TIMMAY, and Avi playing well. That would've set the table nicely for Eloy coming up next season and not being looked at as a savior who has to change the team.

As it looks, they'll struggle not to lose 100.

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Well it's really two different things. Appropriate expectations with an ideal organization rebuilding, and appropriate expectations with the Sox where nobody is ever held accountable for being terrible at their jobs. In the former scenario, competing next season is a reasonable expectation. In the latter scenario, there's no reasonable expectation to ever be competitive again.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It should not take 3 years of sucking. They made four big trades that landed them almost ten top 100 prospects. And its not like they've been picking in the 20's all this time either, they've added quite a few notable guys in the draft who are starting to percolate their way to the top of the system. This is not a Braves or Padres situation where they must suck forever. They acquired like 5 years worth of draft prospects in a little under a calendar year between the Sale, Quintana, Kahnle (lol) and Eaton trades.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

https://www.dailyherald.com/sports/2018 ... -white-sox

Rozner mad at the fans for not understanding the plan and that 7 is more than 6.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?