I glanced at Stocton's playoff numbers earlier in his career and they were great. I don't remember him chocking but I could have been focused on Malone. Stockton's numbers were hurt by longevity like most players. His last few years were awful for him.

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Payton is much better. Had to carry his team once Kemp left which is something Stockton cannot do. Can score and defend better. Stockton's offense is misleading because he took 3 shots a game and made 2, hence the high efficiency and field goal percentage.

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Stockton was a great all around player and Curry is just a great scorer. Stockton would probably score 30 on him.

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Stockton was a great all around player and Curry is just a great scorer. Stockton would probably score 30 on him.

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Stockton's offense is limited.

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His best years weren't Top tier years though.

The guys i listed had best years that were decidedly better. Plus each was the best player on their own team. Stockton never was that and i can't think of another team ever with 2 all time great players playing for that length of time and never accomplishing anything. I know they got to the NBA finals but for 10-12 years they never got past the 2nd round.

Look at Tim Hardaway's first 6 years in the league. He was a decidedly better player than Stockton. Stockton in theory should have been in his prime. He couldn't touch Hardaway. The best of Nash was decidedly better also.

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Stockton racked up assists but he could never take over a game. He was an efficient player. I know people (advanced stats/analytics guys love that but there was never a time that i thought he was a special player. The guys i named were special.

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Tim in Golden State was far better than Stockton then. I don't even think that it was close.

And you have to knock Stockton as it was a given that he wouldn't shoot as much as he should've and make defenses remotely honest. Pippen still laughs about that.

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It was all in the hands

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He doesn't merit consideration for top 5. Payton like I said was much better. Kidd too. Didn't see Isaiah but the track record doesn't lie. I'm not high on Curry...gotta play d.

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Stockton is one of the most underrated greats in NBA history. He was a great defender and no worse than the 2nd best pure PG in league history. He has 2 records that will never be broken and he didn't play 20 years like most players who hold records. Outside of the record books he will be pretty much forgotten about in 20 years.

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only underrated by the morons who post here. His peers, media and people who know basketball have him properly rated as one of the top 3-5 PGs in NBA history.

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He may be underrated but that still doesn't make him top 2 or even top 5 All Time.

Isaiah has been vastly underrated and overlooked by NBA writers especially. It predates the Jordan walkoff stuff too. The perception of him amongst writers changed once he made the comments about Larry Bird. From that point on he never got his due. At his peak Zeke was a top 5 league guy. He was right there with Bird Magic and Jordan during the mid to late 80's and as Pat Riley once said "there was about a 4 year period in which he played some of the best point guard that the league has ever seen".

He was that good. John Stockton could never dominate a game the way Isaiah Thomas could and the numbers bear that out. 19 and 9 Trumps 13 and 10 any day of the week.

Not just numbers but eyetest as well. Championships you name. Best player on a winning team you name it.

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You're cherry picking stats. Isiah played fewer seasons so his averages are naturally higher. Outside of scoring Stockton's 5 best seasons are superior to Zeke's. Stockton dominated games on both ends of the court despite not being a natural scorer. Isiah could only dominate a game offensively.

You not even having Stockton in your top 10 despite him holding records that will never be broken tells me that you value flash and scoring over actual skill and results.

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I actually placed him between 5 and 10. Isaiah's best years Were much better than Stockton's and you are actually cherry picking numbers by counting career numbers.

Mark Jackson had more career assists than Zeke also. Does that make him better too? Stockton also wasn't that elite of a defender either. Stockton was never the best player on his own team. Isaiah was always the best player on his own team. A 2 time championship team at that. Isaiah's Assist totals were comparable even while being a much better scorer.

He was also a much better ball handler, shot creator, and finisher than Stockton.

What kills your argument is that they played in the same era and are about the same age. Isaiah was making All Star teams while Stockton was playing at Gonzaga.

Isaiah was leading his teams deep in the playoffs while Stockton was struggling to beat out Ricky Green. While Isaiah Thomas was knocking off some of the best teams in history Stockton was getting bounced in the first and 2 round of the playoffs.

When Zeke matched up with elite point guards he routinely destroyed them. Can't say the same for Stockton.

Stockton had impressive Assist totals but so does Rajon Rondo. Doesn't make Rondo an All Time Great.

If you ask most players who they considered better there is no doubt in my mind that it would be Isaiah.

The Stockton best ever talk had more to do with longetivity. He never dominated the position at any point of his career. Isaiah did. Big difference.

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Stockton has a higher career average in assists. He didn't just accumulate stats. He led the league in assists for 9 straight years and broke Magic's assist record in 20 fewer games. Stockton was also an All NBA defender 5 times. He holds the all time steals record (a record that will never be broken) and led the league in steals multiple times. His defense and play making ability can't be questioned.

John Stockton scored 20k points and had more than 15k assists for his career. That means he was responsible for at least 50k points in his career. That is getting it done on the offensive end.

I admit I hate Isiah Thomas but even if you put him ahead of Stockton that still makes Stockton a top 5 PG.

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Isaiah's best years were typically 20/10.

Stockton's were typically 17/14, plus better defense.

You put Stockton on that Pistons team and he goes what, 15/20?

You put Isaiah on the Jazz and what's he do, 25/10?

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He isn't the only one but i don't want to go over point by point with the other guys.

To provide an example of what I'm talking about i go no further than Rondo again.

Rondo Avg 11 and 9 for his career with 4 All League Defensive teams on his resume. He is more of the comp for Stockton.

At his peak Stockton was arguably not in the top 5 relative to his contemporaries. That is why its so laughable.

Magic
Isaiah
Hardaway
Kevin Johnson
Payton
were all better than Stockton.

Stockton No.2 all time is a lifetime achievement award more than anything else.

Pete Rose is the all time hits leader but when do you ever hear his name mentioned during conversations about the "greatest hitters of all time"?

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Put Stockton on that Pistons team and they don't get to the Finals. Wouldn't get pass the 2nd Round. He also wouldn't get the assists totals because of the style of play they employed.

Chuck Daly changed their style of play when he became the coach. They became more of a grind it out slow down smash mouth team. Isaiah's numbers were suppressed as a result.

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A PG's job: Seeing and knowing the floor, being efficient and facilitating. Leading, communicating.

There's Magic, who is the living definition of the point guard, and then there's Isiah, Stockton, Payton, and Paul, who are awful close. Curry shouldn't be in the discussion.

And if you think PG is tough, try point forward, there's only 3 greats, and they had to do most of what point guards normally do, plus rebound.

I really struggle to respect the opinions of those that think Stockton isn't a Top 5 PG.

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...and you're telling us that one of the nastiest, dirtiest, scrappiest, floppiest, all time assistiest players wouldn't fit in on that "Bad Boys" Pistons teams? Gimme a break. They would have been just as good or better with Stockton at the helm. He would have had just as many, if not more assists...and Daly, an all-time coach, would have adjusted to make it happen.

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No you give me a break. Stockton played most of his career for one of those type of coaches in Sloan and he failed to get out of either the first or 2nd round most of the time. No way you beat Boston or the Lakers with him instead of Isaiah.

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I fail to respect the opinions of those that never really saw the other guys play. Definitely didn't see them play all that often.

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I've seen every player mentioned in people's Top 5's play. You seem to forget everything before the early 1980's doesn't matter in the NBA. It was a garbage league.

You hating on white folks has nothing to do with my basketball watching experience.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Yep. ONLY 2 finals appearances, what a loser!

Stockton made the playoffs every single year of his career.

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So did Melo at the time of all your bashing yet you still found time to let him have it for his lack of playoff success. Same thing should apply to Stockton.

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The Pistons were way more loaded than the Jazz...who were only Stockton and Malone. I would put Daly above Sloan all day long. It's no slight to Isaiah to say Stockton would have been as good or better with that team.

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How can that be when the top two players (one believes that Stockton was better than Isaiah) are on the Jazz? If you look at that Pistons roster they really weren't loaded. They were going deep in the playoffs with Rookies (Dumars, Salley, Rodman) playing pivotal roles. Isaiah Made Laimbeer into what he was. Dantley was Good in his role and so was Vinnie.

The Jazz had the best shot blocker in the game (Eaton). One of the Best 6th men in history (Thurl Bailey) a top half 2 guard in Malone and a few other pieces that I'm forgetting about.

The reason that the Jazz really didn't advance very often was due to their so called all time greats (Stockton and Malone) being essentially frauds when it boiled down to it. They never or rarely played like all time great players when it mattered most.

On paper there was no way they compete with the Lakers or Celtics teams of that era. The greatness of Isaiah Thomas bridged the talent disparity significantly.

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