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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nardi wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
There are very few positions on the field where you can live with a defensive butcher. Maybe 1B or Left Field. Anderson plays neither. He plays a position where adequate defense is a must.

He's a utility player on a championship team.

Another guy not paying attention. Anderson is a top 10 shortstop even with the stumbling and bumbling for the opening 3-1/2 months

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=25,d

And here's the reason he's a top 10 shortstop. He can get to balls NO ONE can get to.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=14,d
And yet in the traditional stats, he is top 4 in errors and bottom 5 in fielding percentage.

Now, I do not believe he is a bottom 4/5 SS, but I've watched- and paid attention to- enough Sox games this year to know he isn't top ten SS either.


And if I'm decyphering my cryptic defense metrics he has produced -1 DRS, Defensive Runs Saved. So no one gets to more balls, but then still can't do anything with them.

You are deciphering incorrectly. It also includes runs cost, which he did early and often.
Sure, I'm cherry picking but that OOZ, you have to admit, is a mind boggler and proves the high ceiling he has.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:45 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nardi wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
There are very few positions on the field where you can live with a defensive butcher. Maybe 1B or Left Field. Anderson plays neither. He plays a position where adequate defense is a must.

He's a utility player on a championship team.

Another guy not paying attention. Anderson is a top 10 shortstop even with the stumbling and bumbling for the opening 3-1/2 months

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=25,d

And here's the reason he's a top 10 shortstop. He can get to balls NO ONE can get to.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=14,d
And yet in the traditional stats, he is top 4 in errors and bottom 5 in fielding percentage.

Now, I do not believe he is a bottom 4/5 SS, but I've watched- and paid attention to- enough Sox games this year to know he isn't top ten SS either.

The man is fun. I'm for fun. I'm for fun guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
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The need to identify the guys to keep like Narvaez and Palka. I doubt they can though. And they'll let a half season of decent Anderson defense make them think they don't need Machado.

I thought they had a shot at Machado and maybe this isnt how it works, but I feel like with Harper's terrible year, the Machado price tag just got even bigger. I know JERRY has been known to write big checks at times, but this will be historically big.


Agree on Harper. What if they replace Delmonico, Avi, Sanchez, and Shields with Jimenez, Harper, Donaldson, and Harvey. Harper gets a 10/$300M, front loaded for 4y/$180M with an opt out after.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:50 am 
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I care more about winning than I do about fun or how entertaining a guy might be.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I care more about winning than I do about fun or how entertaining a guy might be.

Really? You've never had a fun bad player to root for?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:04 pm 
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:lol: Yeah, we've had about 2 dozen on the Sox over the past few years. A fun bad manager up until a couple of years ago too.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:11 pm 
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I enjoy the column next to OOZ on that page. RZR and he scores a .712. I don't watch the sox, but I think Frank has this spot on.

RZR measures a player’s range, taking three things into account: the amount of Balls In Zone (BIZ) a player receives, a player’s total Plays Made, and a player’s total amount of Out Of Zone Plays Made (OOZ). It is, essentially, a simplified version of UZR.

So that stat incorporates his other worldly OOZ and still rates him Awful.

Rating RZR
Excellent 0.940
Great 0.900
Above Average 0.860
Average 0.835
Below Average 0.800
Poor 0.750
Awful 0.700

But you enjoy your one metric where he is great.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:12 pm 
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MartyD47 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The need to identify the guys to keep like Narvaez and Palka. I doubt they can though. And they'll let a half season of decent Anderson defense make them think they don't need Machado.

I thought they had a shot at Machado and maybe this isnt how it works, but I feel like with Harper's terrible year, the Machado price tag just got even bigger. I know JERRY has been known to write big checks at times, but this will be historically big.


Agree on Harper. What if they replace Delmonico, Avi, Sanchez, and Shields with Jimenez, Harper, Donaldson, and Harvey. Harper gets a 10/$300M, front loaded for 4y/$180M with an opt out after.

:lol: Would be nice. Would also like to keep Yolmer.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:01 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
I enjoy the column next to OOZ on that page. RZR and he scores a .712. I don't watch the sox, but I think Frank has this spot on.

RZR measures a player’s range, taking three things into account: the amount of Balls In Zone (BIZ) a player receives, a player’s total Plays Made, and a player’s total amount of Out Of Zone Plays Made (OOZ). It is, essentially, a simplified version of UZR.

So that stat incorporates his other worldly OOZ and still rates him Awful.

Rating RZR
Excellent 0.940
Great 0.900
Above Average 0.860
Average 0.835
Below Average 0.800
Poor 0.750
Awful 0.700

But you enjoy your one metric where he is great.

Ill also enjoy his 10th overall spot among SS


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:57 pm 
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I'd like to think the rotation is starting to solidify, but they basically need a completely new bullpen, and of the guys who have played regularly here's their top 10 in OPS:

Jose Abreu .821
Omar Narvaez .816
Matt Davidson .767
Daniel Palka .754
Nicky Delmonico .719
Tim Anderson .709
Leury Garcia .701
Yoan Moncada .698
Avisail Garcia .696
Yolmer Sanchez .691

When they make the playoffs again, how many of these guys do you think are on the roster?

I suppose what I'm saying in a round about way, is that when this team is good again, most of the guys who will be on that team are not yet playing for the Sox. Therefore, I don't think we're too much closer to a playoff caliber White Sox team than we were when the season started.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:13 pm 
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They'll probably keep Fry, Burr, Viera and Covey around but the high-leverage guys next year will be all new. Hamilton may have actually eeked ahead of Burdi as the "closer of the future", but a good showing by Burdi next spring and he'll be right back where he was too. Those two are a real good pair of quality relief prospects.

Bummer has been stashed away at Charlotte and will be back.
Ruiz will open next year at Charlotte, maybe the big league club. He will one of the first guys up.
Tyler Johnson could be fast-tracked.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:24 am 
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"When they make the playoffs again, how many of these guys do you think are on the roster? "

I don't know. Some of those guys are developing. Some are in their 1st year, some in their 2nd, but you can definitely write off Davidson and Avi. It will all shake out in time for when it's time to compete for a playoff spot in 2020 and legitimately contend for a World Series in 2021. This shit takes time. Just ask the Royals, Cubs, and the Astros.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:34 am 
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I think they have to trade one of A. Garcia, Palka, or Davidson over the winter. Navarez has earned some starts at DH on the days he's not catching, and Eloy will be taking up 600 PA next year. Plus they need a placeholder 2B who they can flip to a contender in July and bring Madrigal up (presuming he has a good half year at Charlotte).

I haven't watched nearly enough games to have a read on Anderson. Listening on the radio isn't enough to form an opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:53 am 
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They have a lot of guys who would be solid 5th IF/4th OF guys on a championship team. Yolmer, Engel, Delmonico, Leury, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:16 pm 
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America wrote:
They'll probably keep Fry, Burr, Viera and Covey around but the high-leverage guys next year will be all new. Hamilton may have actually eeked ahead of Burdi as the "closer of the future", but a good showing by Burdi next spring and he'll be right back where he was too. Those two are a real good pair of quality relief prospects.

Bummer has been stashed away at Charlotte and will be back.
Ruiz will open next year at Charlotte, maybe the big league club. He will one of the first guys up.
Tyler Johnson could be fast-tracked.


Fry has shown enough to stick around. Viera can certainly throw hard, but he's been pretty bad. Covey is the last guy in the bullpen (the long relief guy) on a bad team. They might ferry him back and forth between the bigs and Charlotte for a period of time, but I don't think he's long for this team. Bummer wasn't great last year, and despite having a lot of shifting pieces in this year's bullpen they haven't brought him up. Maybe Ruiz, Hamilton, and Burdi will turn into something, but they're not here yet. I'm sorry, but they will need a bullpen that's almost completely different from the one they have right now when they contend.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:18 pm 
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I've really enjoyed what I've seen out of this team in the last month.

Sox fans have to be optimistic now.

It's fun watching a team on the upswing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:32 pm 
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It's certainly better for the Board.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
"When they make the playoffs again, how many of these guys do you think are on the roster? "

I don't know. Some of those guys are developing. Some are in their 1st year, some in their 2nd, but you can definitely write off Davidson and Avi. It will all shake out in time for when it's time to compete for a playoff spot in 2020 and legitimately contend for a World Series in 2021. This shit takes time. Just ask the Royals, Cubs, and the Astros.


I'd say that four or five guys who are on that list will likely be on the roster when they contend, and off those four or five, two or three will be starting. Here's my thoughts on all of them:

Jose Abreu- better then even chance on being on the club in 2020. He's a solid hitter and supposedly a solid club house guy,
and it doesn't seem like there's anybody beating down the door to take his place.
Omar Narvaez- having a great year at the plate, but I don't think they view him as anything more than a platoon guy.
Therefore, I think the odds are he's gone sooner as opposed to later.
Matt Davidson- all stick, no glove. He doesn't hit well enough to deserve a spot at first or DH on a good team, and they have
too many other guys like Sanchez, Moncada, or Anderson who have more upside defensively that they will
want to try at third. He's gone.
Daniel Palka- intriguing DH type and maybe he can play first. Even money he's here two or three years from now.
Nicky Delmonico .719- doesn't play the outfield particularly well, and with the exception of the last two months of last season, doesn't
hit particularly well. He's gone.
Tim Anderson .709- there seem to be two schools of thought on Anderson, and somehow, both of them seem correct. Sox
management certainly seems to like him, so I'd be shocked if he's not here in some capacity two or three years
from now.
Leury Garcia .701- I've always liked Garcia. He can play every position on the field (with the exception of catcher) and can hit a
little too. I think he could be a solid bench/utility guy on a good team. I hope he sticks around, but he has the
makings of a journey man.
Yoan Moncada .698- I think he's an all around average to slightly below average MLB second baseman right now. Therefore,
assuming he develops at least a little more from here. I think/hope he's around for a while.
Avisail Garcia .696- they'll bring him back for one more year. After that, unless he puts up MVP like numbers, I think he's gone.
Yolmer Sanchez .691- Sanchez is a very similar guy to Leury. I think he would make a good utility infielder on a good team. I hope he
sticks around.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I think they have to trade one of A. Garcia, Palka, or Davidson over the winter. Navarez has earned some starts at DH on the days he's not catching, and Eloy will be taking up 600 PA next year. Plus they need a placeholder 2B who they can flip to a contender in July and bring Madrigal up (presuming he has a good half year at Charlotte).

I haven't watched nearly enough games to have a read on Anderson. Listening on the radio isn't enough to form an opinion.

Trade Davidson.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Wont get much, if anything, for him.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:58 pm 
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tommy wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I think they have to trade one of A. Garcia, Palka, or Davidson over the winter. Navarez has earned some starts at DH on the days he's not catching, and Eloy will be taking up 600 PA next year. Plus they need a placeholder 2B who they can flip to a contender in July and bring Madrigal up (presuming he has a good half year at Charlotte).

I haven't watched nearly enough games to have a read on Anderson. Listening on the radio isn't enough to form an opinion.

Trade Davidson.

For what? He's a 28 yr old nothingburger. He's not even worth the 600K he's making now.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Tied for 3rd place.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:04 pm 
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They can still finish above .500!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:31 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
They can still finish above .500!

More importantly , for some of us, there's an outside chance they can get to 68 wins


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Sadly, Giolito started his Cy Young run in August as opposed to April.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
They can still finish above .500!

More importantly , for some of us, there's an outside chance they can get to 68 wins


Need one more than that.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:01 pm 
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America wrote:
Sadly, Giolito started his Cy Young run in August as opposed to April.

As did Carlos "El Macho" Rodon....but I guess he had an excuse


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:26 am 
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I really want them to bring up Eloy for this Red Sox series.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:27 am 
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Its also a little irritating that all these guys were just as available to come up last year this. They could've had this surge last year and been capitalizing on it in 2018. They got Madrigal out of it so whatever, but hopefully they realize this team is figuring it out.


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