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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
The Inquisitor was right all along--it's been a kHan job from the beginning.

:lol: yep. Miss that guy around here

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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Yes the tank is done.

Now we are back to being awful on accident rather than on purpose.


This pretty much sums it up. They managed to pick up at least two top ten picks (Rodon and Fulmer) while actually trying to win. My hope is that they sign some guys this off season with an eye towards actually keeping them instead of using them as trade chips. We'll wait and see.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:14 am 
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They aren't signing anyone this offseason. Next year is the final tank year. In 20 you will see a whole new outfield and corner infielders. Not to mention a few new starters. 19 will look a whole like 18. Which might be a good thing.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:28 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
juschill wrote:
America wrote:
I can endure a lot as a sports fan, but the White Sox have broken me. Trading away Chris Sale for nothing is just too much. The return on a future HOF pitcher has been reduced to what we hope and pray we can get out of Luis Basabe. The Eaton trade is really not much better. I had no problems with dealing those guys, I was very publicly down on Sale, but they were still stars for the Sox. To get absolutely nothing for them is crazy.

And its beyond getting nothing for them really. Its almost more that what they got for them was so poorly developed and carelessly handled in such a prescribed way that took no interest in what approach each individual player called for that bothers me. The Sox by rule seem to never let anyone skip a level anymore. The Sox by rule keep guys for an entire season at Charlotte. The Sox come up with an innings number preseason and dont stop until a guy has hit that number, even if like Kopech his velocity is cratering for no discernible reason.

Moncada is a bust no matter where he goes, that was just obviously stupid scouting and a case of Dombrowski tricking Hahn by slapping a BMW badge on a Chevy. But Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Dunning all had real potential to be stars. Now they're all either injured or on their last chance to play well enough to stay in MLB. They could have endured the Moncada problem if they had made the right decisions with the pitchers. But issues like player control, and perception, and what it would look like to other minor leaguers crept into their minds and clouded whatever trace amounts of baseball judgment they had to begin with. The end result is: they have no idea what they are doing from a development standpoint. Hahn did a decent enough job bringing in a lot of young talent to the minors but the way in which they have squandered very nearly ALL of that talent is...I cant even think about it.

I'm done.

Thank god for 2005.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.

The bottom line with Hahn is that you are sending out a boy to do a man's job. He's not smarter than Dombrowski and not smarter than Epstein.


Took Theo to the cleaners on the Q trade.


If we have learned anything from this process it's don't count your all-stars until they've played in the big leagues. For all we know Jimenez will turn out to be Viceido and Cease will have a second TJ surgery. I wouldn't declare victory until they're in the All Star game. We already know Boston knew something about Moncada and Kopech got hurt before pitching 20 innings. Giolito and Lopez did nothing but lead the league in xFIP. The Sox have yet to develop a good prospect.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:41 am 
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while the concept of trading Sale, Quintana and Eaton was galling to me, I understand it as part of a plan.

The much more troubling aspect is that they have had several top ten picks and none of them look like impact MLB players

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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Well they werent winning squat with Sale, Q and Eaton.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:47 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
while the concept of trading Sale, Quintana and Eaton was galling to me, I understand it as part of a plan.

The much more troubling aspect is that they have had several top ten picks and none of them look like impact MLB players

I actually like their draft picks aside from Fulmer. Collins, Burdi and Madrigal can play at the major league level. I just don't know how much better than solid regulars at non-demamd positions they'll be.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:51 pm 
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America wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
while the concept of trading Sale, Quintana and Eaton was galling to me, I understand it as part of a plan.

The much more troubling aspect is that they have had several top ten picks and none of them look like impact MLB players

I actually like their draft picks aside from Fulmer. Collins, Burdi and Madrigal can play at the major league level. I just don't know how much better than solid regulars at non-demamd positions they'll be.


What about Burger?


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:02 pm 
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I can skewer Hahn over things he has a lot more fault in than Jake Burger. Of all the injuries this year his was the least preventable (aside from the Abreu horrors).

The re-aggravation was....frustrating...but they cant have someone following him around making sure he wears his boot thing.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:09 pm 
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America wrote:
I can skewer Hahn over things he has a lot more fault in than Jake Burger. Of all the injuries this year his was the least preventable (aside from the Abreu horrors).

The re-aggravation was....frustrating...but they cant have someone following him around making sure he wears his boot thing.



He drafted a large boy who is apparently incapable of taking care of himself. Probably not the best pick.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Is "doesn't wear his walking boot when told" really something that winds up on the scouting report.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:12 pm 
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It's just a bad organization plain and simple. Always has been.

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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:13 pm 
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America wrote:
Is "doesn't wear his walking boot when told" really something that winds up on the scouting report.


No, but similar behavior where he doesn't listen or does his own thing probably is.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Fine. It's impossible to disagree with how bad this last decade has been. But at least be fair about what you hammer them on. I get that you're frustrated but just reflexively blaming Hahn for the Burger injury is ridiculous. If you want to hammer him on a pick there's Carson Fulmer, who was taken ahead of at least 10 other players (one his college teammate) who all look to have major league futures.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:18 pm 
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America wrote:
Fine. It's impossible to disagree with how bad this last decade has been. But at least be fair about what you hammer them on. I get that you're frustrated but just reflexively blaming Hahn for the Burger injury is ridiculous. If you want to hammer him on a pick there's Carson Fulmer, who was taken ahead of at least 10 other players (one his college teammate) who all look to have major league futures.


I think that pick was fine. The problem was the way they handled him and their insistence on him being a starter. You could argue that they shouldn't have chosen a reliever that high, but still.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:28 pm 
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That pick was retarded.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:38 pm 
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America wrote:
That pick was retarded.


He was rated higher than he was picked.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Good for him. He is dogshit and the Sox should've seen that.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:26 pm 
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If you could ask Haha to speak honestly about how poorly this is going, but to still give you reason for optimism he would point to the two guys from the Cubs trade and Blake Rutherford. You assume they will be able to build a good bullpen and outfield out of what they have and hopefully limit the number of just complete black holes that sank the Sale/Eaton/Q/Abreu.

But they'll need stars and right now they have none. Cease can be their ace and Jimenez/Rutherford can carry the offense. It's a long shot but it's possible.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:47 pm 
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America wrote:
If you could ask Haha to speak honestly about how poorly this is going, but to still give you reason for optimism he would point to the two guys from the Cubs trade and Blake Rutherford. You assume they will be able to build a good bullpen and outfield out of what they have and hopefully limit the number of just complete black holes that sank the Sale/Eaton/Q/Abreu.

But they'll need stars and right now they have none. Cease can be their ace and Jimenez/Rutherford can carry the offense. It's a long shot but it's possible.


I can't remember if it's you who has been doing this, but I see a fair amount of love for Blake Rutherford on this board. He seems to be projected as a light-hitting corner outfielder, and he couldn't even pull an .800 ops in Winston-Salem this year. Have you watched this guy play? Is there something that comes out when you do that the stat sheet is not picking up? If there's not, I don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Big guy sweet swing average is good. No power yet

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 Post subject: Re: So it begins now?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Rutherford is a good runner who is going to has elite range, glove and arm for the LF. Good judgment at the plate and can put the bat on the ball. Doesn't K a lot and his speed translate well to the basepaths. It is disheartening that we will not see him in Chicago until 2021 at the earliest.

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