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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:20 pm 
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A book taking an objective look faulty conclusions surrounding CTE could be a worthwhile read.

However this book does not seem to be that based on the title.

If it does turn out to be a rational deconstruction of the CTE "myth", then the publisher of the book (or marketing person or whoever makes the title up) should be fired into the sun.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:21 pm 
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America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

This shouldn't be that hard. Will repeated hits to your head over many years likely cause damage to your brain?

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
Golic was discussing this today. Hoge does site doctors in his book. One problem with the CTE studies is that the sample is skewed—those families donating brains suspect something was wrong. For example, when, and if, Ditka dies, his brain will not be donated.
You would think the players that think this CTE stuff is just a conspiracy against football would be happy to donate their perfectly healthy brains too.

So, just so we are clear here, are some people arguing that constant hits to the head are not going to cause any brain issues?

No one argued that. They were specifically discussing the Boston University study that showed 110 out of 111 brains of former NFL players had CTE. Their point was this is not a random nor representative sample. It is statiscally flawed.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

This shouldn't be that hard. Will repeated hits to your head over many years likely cause damage to your brain?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Can people not disagree or should we all just succumb to the blind ramblings of Boilermaker Rick?


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
A book taking an objective look faulty conclusions surrounding CTE could be a worthwhile read.

However this book does not seem to be that based on the title.

If it does turn out to be a rational deconstruction of the CTE "myth", then the publisher of the book (or marketing person or whoever makes the title up) should be fired into the sun.


Except, like newspaper headlines and click bait, it is designed to get people juiced up to read it and talk about it. Just look at this thread. Fire n Passion.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:27 pm 
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America wrote:
Can people not disagree or should we all just succumb to the blind ramblings of Boilermaker Rick?

You are free to disagree but then do it.

I would actually love to hear your argument that repeated hits to the head over many years isn't likely going to do damage to your brain. It's certainly better than railing on about liberals.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:28 pm 
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"Let's argue about whether the headline of this book I have no interest in reading properly describes the content of the book (which again, I'm not going to read)"

May my brain never be THIS pozzed.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:29 pm 
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America wrote:
"Let's argue about whether the headline of this book I have no interest in reading properly describes the content of the book (which again, I'm not going to read)"

May my brain never be THIS pozzed.


Too late.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
Can people not disagree or should we all just succumb to the blind ramblings of Boilermaker Rick?

You are free to disagree but then do it.

I would actually love to hear your argument that repeated hits to the head over many years isn't likely going to do damage to your brain. It's certainly better than railing on about liberals.

I dont know shit about brains or whatever the hell. I am not married to an idea one way or the other, I am open to different experts interpretations of what CTE is and how strong the correlation is to football. You are the one who has latched onto this dogma and refuse to budge even an inch.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:31 pm 
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America wrote:
"Let's argue about whether the headline of this book I have no interest in reading properly describes the content of the book (which again, I'm not going to read)"

PittMerica

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Who is trying to stop football? It's can't be (((them))) because (((they))) have a vested interest in it continuing to exist. NBA Twitter is my guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 pm 
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America wrote:
I dont know shit about brains or whatever the hell. I am not married to an idea one way or the other, I am open to different experts interpretations of what CTE is and how strong the correlation is to football. You are the one who has latched onto this dogma and refuse to budge even an inch.
Yes, I am quite certain that repeated hits to the head over many years will likely cause damage to your brain. If you want to tell me I'm wrong about that then I will listen to your opinions otherwise but I see no reason to take you seriously when you aren't even willing to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 pm 
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America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

:lol: :lol:

This is as bad as Trump's theory that exercise is bad because you have a finite amount of energy and wasting it exercising will kill you quicker.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 pm 
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I think it’s been cool of the wisemen not to out Hoge posting as HawaiiYou here .

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:35 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

:lol: :lol:

This is as bad as Trump's theory that exercise is bad because you have a finite amount of energy and wasting it exercising will kill you quicker.

Well to Brick's credit he didn't deliberately misunderstand my post, but you did.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
I dont know shit about brains or whatever the hell. I am not married to an idea one way or the other, I am open to different experts interpretations of what CTE is and how strong the correlation is to football. You are the one who has latched onto this dogma and refuse to budge even an inch.
Yes, I am quite certain that repeated hits to the head over many years will likely cause damage to your brain. If you want to tell me I'm wrong about that then I will listen to your opinions otherwise but I see no reason to take you seriously when you aren't even willing to do that.

What's the extent of the damage? Whats the threshold for how hard the hits have to be? Is there a difference at different ages.

What if the truth is that football is really no more dangerous than most blue collar jobs? Should football really have this existential crisis looming over it, or even be called gladiatorial, if its really no more dangerous than working in a factory?


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:38 pm 
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America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

:lol: :lol:

This is as bad as Trump's theory that exercise is bad because you have a finite amount of energy and wasting it exercising will kill you quicker.

Well to Brick's credit he didn't deliberately misunderstand my post, but you did.

There's nothing to misunderstand. Your post is very clear. You think it's possible the brain works the same way that biceps do.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:39 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

:lol: :lol:

This is as bad as Trump's theory that exercise is bad because you have a finite amount of energy and wasting it exercising will kill you quicker.

Well to Brick's credit he didn't deliberately misunderstand my post, but you did.

There's nothing to misunderstand. Your post is very clear. You think it's possible the brain works the same way that biceps do.


"You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not."
way to go missing the entire point


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:40 pm 
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America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.

:lol: :lol:

This is as bad as Trump's theory that exercise is bad because you have a finite amount of energy and wasting it exercising will kill you quicker.

Well to Brick's credit he didn't deliberately misunderstand my post, but you did.

There's nothing to misunderstand. Your post is very clear. You think it's possible the brain works the same way that biceps do.


"You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not."
way to go missing the entire point

You're not saying that. You're saying it's possible. JUST ASKING QUESTIONS. It's entertaining.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Heisenberg wrote:
Golic was discussing this today. Hoge does site doctors in his book. One problem with the CTE studies is that the sample is skewed—those families donating brains suspect something was wrong. For example, when, and if, Ditka dies, his brain will not be donated.

Nice


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:44 pm 
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America wrote:
Think of it this way:

The reason lifting weights makes you stronger is because you are putting repeated, sometimes extreme, stress on those muscles and your nervous system responds by buttressing and strengthening those muscles to prepare for more stress. By your logic putting your quads through the stress of three-times-a-week squats would weaken and eventually destroy them, but we all know the opposite is true.

Am I saying you can condition your brain to withstand head blows? No. Not at all. You are desperately going to try and misconstrue this post as me saying that, but I'm not.

But, I dont find "my theory" that I explained above any less based on useless assumption than yours.


The above makes no sense.

Lifting weights is using your muscles for what they are designed, to operate and maneuver the human skeleton and internal organs against gravity, and other physical forces. This is what your muscles are designed for, so you are just optimizing them. (Lets ignore for the time being that overtraining and developing these muscles could have adverse impacts to joints and ligaments as it results to heavy training.) Again, this is what the human musculature is designed to do.

Are you saying that the human brain/head was designed to be struck repeatedly? That's just insane. Sure the human head has some protective properties, but the brain certainly hasn't developed for the purpose of being repeatedly stuck with intense force.

What your silly example should be is the following: Will hitting your quad muscles repeatedly with a hammer weaken and eventually destroy these muscles? The answer to this is, obviously yes.

Will hitting your head against another human being's head, or the ground, or some other unforgiving object eventually damage and impact the brain of that person? The answer to this is, obviously yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Another one. Its terrifying how bad American's comprehension abilities are.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:46 pm 
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America wrote:
What's the extent of the damage? Whats the threshold for how hard the hits have to be? Is there a difference at different ages.

What if the truth is that football is really no more dangerous than most blue collar jobs? Should football really have this existential crisis looming over it, or even be called gladiatorial, if its really no more dangerous than working in a factory?
Those are interesting questions that first require an initial agreement on the question of whether getting hit in the head multiple times over many years is bad for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Maybe you should say what you mean and not couch shit in analogies.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:47 pm 
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For the record, we’re not saying that CTE doesn’t exist or suggesting that taking repeated hits to the head is a good thing. Clearly, something is causing neurodegenerative disease in some athletes, and something is leaving CTE’s distinctive protein signature in their brains. But there’s so much we don’t know: what causes it, if impacts to the head are really involved, how much exposure is too much, what clinical symptoms (if any) these physical signs might cause later in life, if other factors are involved, and more. There are too many unanswered questions to justify the fear and hysteria.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:47 pm 
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America wrote:
Another one. Its terrifying how bad American's comprehension abilities are.

That is LITERALLY the analogy you wrote. Don't blame us. No other interpretation of what you wrote would be valid.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:47 pm 
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America wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This shouldn't be that hard. Will repeated hits to your head over many years likely cause damage to your brain?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Can people not disagree or should we all just succumb to the blind ramblings of Boilermaker Rick?

rambling? it was a YES or NO question...


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This shouldn't be that hard. Will repeated hits to your head over many years likely cause damage to your brain?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Can people not disagree or should we all just succumb to the blind ramblings of Boilermaker Rick?

rambling? it was a YES or NO question...

To be fair I Don't Know is a valid answer and pretty much the one he gave using more words than necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This shouldn't be that hard. Will repeated hits to your head over many years likely cause damage to your brain?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Can people not disagree or should we all just succumb to the blind ramblings of Boilermaker Rick?

rambling? it was a YES or NO question...

Without a YES or NO answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Heisenberg wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
Golic was discussing this today. Hoge does site doctors in his book. One problem with the CTE studies is that the sample is skewed—those families donating brains suspect something was wrong. For example, when, and if, Ditka dies, his brain will not be donated.
You would think the players that think this CTE stuff is just a conspiracy against football would be happy to donate their perfectly healthy brains too.

So, just so we are clear here, are some people arguing that constant hits to the head are not going to cause any brain issues?

No one argued that. They were specifically discussing the Boston University study that showed 110 out of 111 brains of former NFL players had CTE. Their point was this is not a random nor representative sample. It is statiscally flawed.


It's statistically flawed if the conclusion is that ALL NFL players will develop CTE.

It's more statistically relevant if the conclusion is that playing NFL football predisposes someone to develop CTE.


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