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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:51 pm 
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In fact, 67 percent of the players found to have mild CTE also had substance abuse problems – and the abuse of some drugs can cause the key physical sign of CTE, deposits of a protein called tau in the brain. By the way, obesity, steroid use, cigarette smoking and chronic stress can also cause many of the physical signs of CTE. For example, 2016 research from the University of British Columbia found that anabolic steroid use causes CTE-like brain changes in mice, while research published in Frontiers in Neuroscience in 2014 found that obesity increases tau deposits in the brain. Were any of those former players obese, smokers or steroid users? Did they experience a lot of stress? We have no idea, because the study either didn’t ask or doesn’t tell us.



That seems like something to latch onto for some.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:51 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
For the record, we’re not saying that CTE doesn’t exist or suggesting that taking repeated hits to the head is a good thing. Clearly, something is causing neurodegenerative disease in some athletes, and something is leaving CTE’s distinctive protein signature in their brains. But there’s so much we don’t know: what causes it, if impacts to the head are really involved, how much exposure is too much, what clinical symptoms (if any) these physical signs might cause later in life, if other factors are involved, and more. There are too many unanswered questions to justify the fear and hysteria.


Do they go into who is behind the plot to destroy football?

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:57 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
Golic was discussing this today. Hoge does site doctors in his book. One problem with the CTE studies is that the sample is skewed—those families donating brains suspect something was wrong. For example, when, and if, Ditka dies, his brain will not be donated.
You would think the players that think this CTE stuff is just a conspiracy against football would be happy to donate their perfectly healthy brains too.

So, just so we are clear here, are some people arguing that constant hits to the head are not going to cause any brain issues?

No one argued that. They were specifically discussing the Boston University study that showed 110 out of 111 brains of former NFL players had CTE. Their point was this is not a random nor representative sample. It is statiscally flawed.


It's statistically flawed if the conclusion is that ALL NFL players will develop CTE.

It's more statistically relevant if the conclusion is that playing NFL football predisposes someone to develop CTE.


You are simply wrong here. It would be akin to the families of cancer victims from Purdue submitting their bodies to science and concluding attending Purdue predisposes someone to cancer.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:17 pm 
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People who have CTE are predisposed to becoming professional football players!

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:22 pm 
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America wrote:
I dont know shit about brains or whatever the hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Heisenberg wrote:
You are simply wrong here. It would be akin to the families of cancer victims from Purdue submitting their bodies to science and concluding attending Purdue predisposes someone to cancer.
That analogy is only valid if they are somehow excluding those who don't claim to have symptoms. I believe everyone is free to participate that was an NFL player.

It would be like if you did a study on smokers who smoked for 30 years. It's possible that the people that have "no effects" from it are virtually none.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
You are simply wrong here. It would be akin to the families of cancer victims from Purdue submitting their bodies to science and concluding attending Purdue predisposes someone to cancer.
That analogy is only valid if they are somehow excluding those who don't claim to have symptoms. I believe everyone is free to participate that was an NFL player.

It would be like if you did a study on smokers who smoked for 30 years. It's possible that the people that have "no effects" from it are virtually none.

ok have you ever heard of a control group?


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:39 pm 
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America wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
You are simply wrong here. It would be akin to the families of cancer victims from Purdue submitting their bodies to science and concluding attending Purdue predisposes someone to cancer.
That analogy is only valid if they are somehow excluding those who don't claim to have symptoms. I believe everyone is free to participate that was an NFL player.

It would be like if you did a study on smokers who smoked for 30 years. It's possible that the people that have "no effects" from it are virtually none.

ok have you ever heard of a control group?
The control group would be people who never played football and I can promise you the numbers will be lower.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:53 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
America wrote:
I dont know shit about brains or whatever the hell.


Sums it up nicely :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
You are simply wrong here. It would be akin to the families of cancer victims from Purdue submitting their bodies to science and concluding attending Purdue predisposes someone to cancer.
That analogy is only valid if they are somehow excluding those who don't claim to have symptoms. I believe everyone is free to participate that was an NFL player.

It would be like if you did a study on smokers who smoked for 30 years. It's possible that the people that have "no effects" from it are virtually none.

ok have you ever heard of a control group?
The control group would be people who never played football and I can promise you the numbers will be lower.

Have you ever taken stats? You are simply wrong. The sample must be random, not selective.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Heisenberg wrote:
Have you ever taken stats? You are simply wrong. The sample must be random, not selective.
What do you mean the sample must be random? They do studies all the time where the control group still has certain common attributes.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
Have you ever taken stats? You are simply wrong. The sample must be random, not selective.
What do you mean the sample must be random? They do studies all the time where the control group still has certain common attributes.

Sure. You can’t conduct an unbiased study by chosing the sample selectively. The brains submitted in this case we’re all volunteered by families of deceased NFL players that thought something was wrong with them mentally. A fair sample would include brains of players where the family suspected nothing. Random would be best. They should also account for other factors—did they play for 15 years in the NFL or only 2? What positions? When did they begin playing? Did they take medications or illegal drugs while playing? Did they drink? How old were they when they died?

One study showed that asbestos miners had higher than average lung cancer. Turns out, over 90% also smoked. Drinking is bad for your liver, but combining with Tylenol makes it worse.

I think football causes CTE. But not in over 99% of the players, as the Boston study extrapolates to.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Heisenberg wrote:
Sure. You can’t conduct an unbiased study by chosing the sample selectively. The brains submitted in this case we’re all volunteered by families of deceased NFL players that thought something was wrong with them mentally.
That isn't entirely true. Many didn't have serious issues. There are many current and recently retired players that are pledging to donate their brains too who aren't reporting major symptoms. Even with that said, there is still value to it. If 100 former smokers suspect they have a disease from it and 100/101 were absolutely correct then that is telling. Now, maybe a larger study would be better but it doesn't make that one useless.

Heisenberg wrote:
A fair sample would include brains of players where the family suspected nothing. Random would be best. They should also account for other factors—did they play for 15 years in the NFL or only 2? What positions? What she did they begin playing? Did they take medications or illegal drugs while playing? Did they drink? How old were they when they died?
They did do that. It included high school and college only players.

Heisenberg wrote:
One study showed that asbestos miners had higher than average lung cancer. Turns out, over 90% also smoked. Drinking is bad for your liver, but combining with Tylenol makes it worse.
Are you also doubting the asbestos/cancer link? That doesn't seem like a good counterpoint.

Heisenberg wrote:
I think football causes CTE. But not in over 99% of the players, as the Boston study extrapolates to.
They did not do that. That was simply the results of the participants.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Chris Nowkinski was too dumb to make it as a pro wrestler.

Can't trust anything he says.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:26 pm 
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America dominating about 12 people in this thread, as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:35 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:36 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
America dominating about 12 people in this thread, as usual.

Yup. His post about how the brain probably works the same as arm muscles was definitely interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Its exhausting leash. I cant keep it up but for short bursts before I lose patience.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:41 pm 
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America wrote:
Its exhausting leash. I cant keep it up but for short bursts before I lose patience.


Take a break. You've earned it.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Brick showing himself to be experienced in many areas but master of none. Intellectual lightweight and gaffot confirmed

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:40 pm 
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He's shedding his human veneer and revealing the dirty subhuman lib he's always been. PEE-YEW it sure is nasty.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:48 pm 
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America wrote:
He's shedding his human veneer and revealing the dirty subhuman lib he's always been. PEE-YEW it sure is nasty.

Maybe I'll hit myself in the head repeatedly because I don't know maybe that actually makes your brain stronger?

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
He's shedding his human veneer and revealing the dirty subhuman lib he's always been. PEE-YEW it sure is nasty.

Maybe I'll hit myself in the head repeatedly because I don't know maybe that actually makes your brain stronger?


I'll hit you in the head repeatedly with my boot for free

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:50 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
He's shedding his human veneer and revealing the dirty subhuman lib he's always been. PEE-YEW it sure is nasty.

Maybe I'll hit myself in the head repeatedly because I don't know maybe that actually makes your brain stronger?


I'll hit you in the head repeatedly with my boot for free

You couldn't even handle getting banned here. You aren't doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
He's shedding his human veneer and revealing the dirty subhuman lib he's always been. PEE-YEW it sure is nasty.

Maybe I'll hit myself in the head repeatedly because I don't know maybe that actually makes your brain stronger?

I say you go all out and put it on the RR tracks.


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:53 pm 
leashyourkids wrote:
America wrote:
Its exhausting leash. I cant keep it up but for short bursts before I lose patience.


Take a break. You've earned it.

Haven’t you died in a fire yet? Or at least burned your computer in one?


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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
He's shedding his human veneer and revealing the dirty subhuman lib he's always been. PEE-YEW it sure is nasty.

Maybe I'll hit myself in the head repeatedly because I don't know maybe that actually makes your brain stronger?


I'll hit you in the head repeatedly with my boot for free

You couldn't even handle getting banned here. You aren't doing that.

Meet me IRL and find out bitch.

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Find out what?

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 Post subject: Re: Merril Hoge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:29 pm 
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he has some new soy shake he wants you to try


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